Setting up propogation tank?

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M00n3at3r

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Hey guys, say I wanted to set up a propagation tank, what would I need if I'm going to use a 10g tank? I have a friend that I want to grow plants for his turtle tank, mostly wisteria and pennywort. The pennywort is also for my 75g. Just trying to help them grow a little faster. Probably going to be using a 29g hood as I have an extra. Or maybe just for the fun of it the extra 75g hood for LOTS of light. May avoid that though, don't want to have to use co2.
 

ZorroNet

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Really all you need is a tank, some light that's appropriate for the plants you are growing, and some substrate. Water movement is helpful, and MTS will also be handy. Filtration is optional, but a small filter with carbon removed will suffice. I'd use the smallest cheapest one Walmart has to offer or whatever you have on hand.

On my prop tank I have a piece of glass on top to reduce evaporation and some brooder box reflectors with 6500K CFL bulbs in them. Put it on a timer 5 hours on / 4 off / 5 on / 10 off schedule. Your plants will grow out very quickly if you do all of the above. I also have RCS in my prop tank because I like them and they eat algae off the leaves, but they aren't necessary. Without fish or shrimp in the tank, dosing some fertilizers might be needed. I don't know anything about that, so I'll let someone else chime in now :)


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axelrod12

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Have you considered an emersed setup? They can be easily done with a sterilite container, some organic miracle grow potting soil, and a cfl in a shop light. They can be cheaper than a submersed setup depending on what you have laying around and I've found most plants will convert from emersed growth to submersed fairly quickly and without dying back much at all. If it's turtle food then that wouldn't even be a concern though.

If you go with a submersed setup the above recommendations sound good. I would say ferts and the need for co2 would depend on the lighting and plants being grown as with any submersed setup. Enough light and you will see lots of algae without co2. I'm not sure how you would use a 4' 75g hood efficiently over a 10g tank. Seems like it would be difficult to reflect the light into the tank?
 
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M00n3at3r

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Zorro, since it's just wisteria and pennywort I was planning on just floating them and dosing with flourish comprehensive? I have a top fin 10 filter that I can use for water movement. Since it's just for a couple plants I probably won't pick up any snails, I actually have a fairly large snail burst going on in my 75 so I can just move some of those guys over to help with algae control. Why the strange schedule for the light? For the hood, the tank has one that came with it, but it has incandecent bulbs so I would like to use the extra 29g hood so it is not so hot.

Axelrod, no I haven't considered the immersed, only because I am trying to keep it low budget. And "effeciently" I couldn't use the 75g hood, but it would be much brighter then the 29g hood. I don't really mind algae since it's not a display tank only a grow tank.
 

Byron Amazonas

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You should (and will) mind algae, since it will get on the plant leaves and eventually kill the plants. Some of those small snails will help, plus not having the light too intense or the duration too long.

Given the intended plants, pennywort and wisteria, submersed and not emersed will work better here. Emersed works very well with bog plants like swords, crypts, etc. Both Wisteria and Pennywort are marsh plants that naturally grow emersed and submersed, the leaf structure obviously changes depending upon this. If aquatic cultivation is intended down the road, submersed cultivation would be preferable.

As with any tank with plants, finding the balance between light intensity and all 17 nutrients is all that is needed. But without fish in the tank, nutrients will be in shorter supply. So you will need to add them somehow.

I have a 20g tank with plants that I keep running as a QT for new fish acquisitions. It can sit without fish for months, longest period being a full year. I have noticed a difference in the plants between periods of fish and no fish, and the plants grow better when fish are present. Obviously this is because of the additional CO2 (from the breakdown of fish waste and respiration) and various other nutrients that enter via fish foods. Substrate is play sand, same as my other tanks (except one), and there are many Malaysian Livebearing and Bladder/Pond snails (these help to break down organics and provide more CO2). Lighting is a basic two-socket inandescent hood using two 10w Daylight 6500K CFL bulbs. I fertilize regularly with Flourish Comprehensive the same as the other planted fish tanks. Plants remain alive but definitely grow more slowly. There is never any sign of algae in this tank.

Byron.
 

M00n3at3r

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You should (and will) mind algae, since it will get on the plant leaves and eventually kill the plants. Some of those small snails will help, plus not having the light too intense or the duration too long.

Given the intended plants, pennywort and wisteria, submersed and not emersed will work better here. Emersed works very well with bog plants like swords, crypts, etc. Both Wisteria and Pennywort are marsh plants that naturally grow emersed and submersed, the leaf structure obviously changes depending upon this. If aquatic cultivation is intended down the road, submersed cultivation would be preferable.

As with any tank with plants, finding the balance between light intensity and all 17 nutrients is all that is needed. But without fish in the tank, nutrients will be in shorter supply. So you will need to add them somehow.

I have a 20g tank with plants that I keep running as a QT for new fish acquisitions. It can sit without fish for months, longest period being a full year. I have noticed a difference in the plants between periods of fish and no fish, and the plants grow better when fish are present. Obviously this is because of the additional CO2 (from the breakdown of fish waste and respiration) and various other nutrients that enter via fish foods. Substrate is play sand, same as my other tanks (except one), and there are many Malaysian Livebearing and Bladder/Pond snails (these help to break down organics and provide more CO2). Lighting is a basic two-socket inandescent hood using two 10w Daylight 6500K CFL bulbs. I fertilize regularly with Flourish Comprehensive the same as the other planted fish tanks. Plants remain alive but definitely grow more slowly. There is never any sign of algae in this tank.

Byron.
Duly noted. I can shift some fish over into that tank so there is a bio load. Does it matter if I leave it bare bottom?
 

Byron Amazonas

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Duly noted. I can shift some fish over into that tank so there is a bio load. Does it matter if I leave it bare bottom?
Yes and no. While it could likely work with more added liquid ferts, I would have a substrate, sand or fine gravel, because this is where the majority of organics accumulate to get broken down by snails and then bacteria. This is a major source of CO2 and other nutrients. A bare tank provides considerably fewer places for the essential bacteria.
 

M00n3at3r

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Yes and no. While it could likely work with more added liquid ferts, I would have a substrate, sand or fine gravel, because this is where the majority of organics accumulate to get broken down by snails and then bacteria. This is a major source of CO2 and other nutrients. A bare tank provides considerably fewer places for the essential bacteria.
Perhaps instead of setting up a new tank I will put them in my 10g at work. I have 2 zoomed 6500 cfls and I dose weekly with api leaf zone. It probably isn't the best ferts, but the tank is well established and my Java Ferns and Anubias grow very quickly. And I have mollies and platties in it, so lots of natural ferts!!!
 

ZorroNet

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I don't know about penny wort, but I can tell you that wisteria grows more quickly when planted in the substrate, so if you are going for quick propagation, plant it. It will send out runner-like stems and fill the substrate, then grow up out of that horizontal stem. I just took two basketballs worth out of my 29 that it took over. You won't be hurting for any of that stuff! Throw some "dirty" fish like guppies that make a bunch of waste and some snails in, and you will be good to go! I am about to acquire a bunch of mutt guppies if you want me to ship you some.
 

Byron Amazonas

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Perhaps instead of setting up a new tank I will put them in my 10g at work. I have 2 zoomed 6500 cfls and I dose weekly with api leaf zone. It probably isn't the best ferts, but the tank is well established and my Java Ferns and Anubias grow very quickly. And I have mollies and platties in it, so lots of natural ferts!!!
This will work. You're correct on the API LeafZone, as it is only potassium and iron, but in tanks with such low-nutrient requiring plants this is not going to matter. The fish, esp livebearers, will provide a full range of nutrients sufficient for slow-growing plants.
 
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