Han Solo does not recommend carbon... do you?

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ZorroNet

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Okay, I'm prepared for an open debate here...

Upon recommendation, I have removed the activated carbon from all of my filter cartridges in the past. My plants grow fabulously, but so does algae. Also, sometimes my office where most of my aquariums are smells of fish (2 tanks, 2 totes, and a 5 gallon bucket), but I can understand that given there are more aquariums than office furniture in here. So I did an experiment, and now I would like some opinions and scientific theory on the matter.

The 5 gallon bucket is full of giant amounts of hair algae... 3/4 full of it initially. There is some java moss in there with it that got pulled out with the mass of algae. The bucket is white, it has no light aside from the ambient overhead lighting 8 feet above it. Just for fun, I threw a filter in it with an unaltered, carbon intact, filter cartridge because the last time I did the bucket o algae experiment it STUNK to high heaven! Well the water is as clear as it can be, algae seems to be shrinking, and the java moss is looking good! Also some rough looking frogbit that was pulled out with the algae is sprouting like it's spring time in there.

So... I know that carbon removes things from the water, and most planted tank enthusiasts say to remove the carbon. I'm looking at a healthy tank of something that would otherwise be a stinky sludge and wondering if carbon might help in the big tank I removed the algae from. What do you think and why?
 

cubequeen

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Well, speaking of stinky, every time I have ever used carbon it gets stinky. My theory is that the micro-porous structure of carbon is anaerobic and encourages anaerobic bacteria that produces hydrogen sulphide. On the other hand, if it's working for you in the bucket, well, you can't argue with success, I guess.

I still fight algae all the time too (hair and green dot), but at least I haven't had BGA for a very long time.
 

Pinkey

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Let the debate begin!

Carbon and Carbonite (the substance in which Jaba the Hut imprisoned Han Solo) are very similar. Both trap impurities, chemical additives as well as bootleggers who cross galactic crime bosses. Both can get saturated and once full, release what they have captured.

One unit of carbonite can hold one prisoner just as one pad of carbon can hold only a certain amount of impurities. Once the carbon has finished absorbing it can cease to function and even release impurities back into the water. While carbon can temporarily clean the water it would take constant and ongoing replacement to maintain full function.

I am not enough of a chemist to know what the chemistry is in the long run but I'd guess that buckets of plants are not part of the long run plan.

As far as the simple short answer of will carbon make your bucket stink less? I'd guess so.

I have another thought, though. Would it be practical to raise your tubs/buckets so the water levels are the same? If it is, you could combine some or all of them with the sump on one of your actual tanks. The primary sump would have the larger pump in it to send the water back to the tank BUT all the other containers would also have siphons to and from one another with another pump that would cycle the water between those and back into the primary sump. The plants would do tons of good for your fish tank and the cycling water, with appropriate aeration would certainly smell less bad than the semi-stagnant water that existed a week ago. Is this practical in any way?

Contraptions like this always seem like they belong in a MacGyver episode but that is part of the fun for me. The other part of the mission is that you must do it for less than $12 and you only have 12 hours to do it.
 

ktrom13

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Did you know a single bag of activated carbon has acres of surface area?

Now on to the debate. As stated before, you cant argue with success. In your case, running carbon works best. In my case, i dont need it( i do keep extra on hand just in case though). The reason people recommend removing carbon is because it absorbs the nutrients your plants could use. So any ferts you put in would be rendered useless. I havent seen any data or experiments proving this though. Hopefully someone that wants to pitch in can throw some data( proof) around.

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SnakeIce

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I have done planted tanks for a few years now and not run carbon at all, and normal odor for a tank is a bit like fresh turned garden soil. It is there, but not strong. If you have anything that you would call a stink coming from a body of water it is because of a significant amount of decay happening in the water, which could easily happen if there is no water movement. I wouldn't attribute the improvement in the bucket to the carbon until you try adding the filter without any carbon to see what happens. The sweetening of the water could have been caused by water movement.
 

Byron Amazonas

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On the smell, that is a problem with the tank/buckets that you should be able to correct. I have a fish room with 7 tanks running, and there is no smell of fish/plants/water at all unless I take the cover glass off and stick my nose on top of a floating plant. And then it is a nice outdoor/forest type smell. The fact that using carbon removes the smell you mention is proof that there is something not quite right (balanced) in the tank/pail.

On the carbon, Pinkey nicely laid out how it functions, and that is needs regular replacement (the time depends upon the individual tank biology). I believe some people advocate cleaning the carbon somehow, perhaps by drying it in an oven, to re-activate it? Not sure, but regular replacement/cleaning (whichever works) is necessary or it can pollute the tank seriously. And this is not just a release of adsorbed substances, it involves a release of toxic substances that are even worse due to the intervening chemical/biology. BTW, carbon adsorbs, not absorbs (though it may do both, can't remember). Some knowledgeable sources will even suggest carbon not be used in non-planted tanks, on the basis that regular water changes and a balanced system are the essentials to a healthy aquarium.

Carbon removes the "stuff" that plants will remove, all of it. Some of this stuff are nutrients. One in particular is DOC (dissolved organic carbon). DOC is a prime source of carbon for plants, and as most of us with natural or low-tech method planted tanks are anxious to preserve all the carbon (as CO2) we can, it seems foolish to be removing some of it at the possible expense of the plants. Now, back to that balance problem, it may be that things are sufficiently unbalanced and the carbon's removal of some of this is thus not detrimental to your plants. My aim would be to forget the carbon, get the balance back, and thus have no smell.

Byron.
 

Rbishop

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The carbon will not release what it has chemically bonded with, which is how it does it's job. You can reactivate carbon, but only if you heat it to about 3000F for an extended period of time. The high heat breaks the chemical bonds, it is rinsed and the procedure done again...not very economical for the average joe. I agree with Snake...if it stinks, you have rot going on. But there are many folk out there that confuse (and hate) the normal smell of fresh damp garden soil...it often smells a bit mildew like from the natural activity going on. If you are into developing a heavily unnatural planted tank, (face it, most planted tanks that people envy just don't exist in nature), your better off without the carbon. But for a clean and almost odor free tank, carbon is the only way to go.
 

wesleydnunder

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IMO, carbon is unnecessary for a healthy aquarium. As stated, a healthy tank will have an earthy smell. I've run as many as 2 dozen tanks back when I was breeding and raising angels and my fish room never smelled bad. Regular maintenance and water changes will keep the tank(s) healthy and stank-free.

Mark
 

Rbishop

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But carbon keeps the water much clearer for viewing and pictures... :hi:
 

ZorroNet

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Wonderful! This is the kind of stuff I am interested in, and I've never really seen it fleshed out on the net with such precision. I was particularly appreciative of Nate's comparison of Carbon and Carbonite which I think was a lesson to us all. :)

In any case, I haven't quite figured out the imbalance that renders the hair algae in the regular tank (not the bucket) so voracious. I've been dealing with this imbalance for a while now, and I tire of manual removal of the hairy green stuff. One thought is to remove extra nutrients that may be "fueling the fire" by temporarily replacing my filter cartridges with carbon filled ones. I would think it wise to do this after a significant manual removal session; so there isn't a mass die-off of algae creating another imbalance and a delicious rotten algae smell.

By temporary, I'd say a month. Who's with me? Anyone against me?
 
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