Why my Ammonia is high and my pH level crashed again?

Does your tank have sand or gravel? Planted or not? How many fish? Tank maintainance? How often do you feed? Answering these can help us help you.

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Knowing the background from your previous threads, this is not exactly bad. Ammonia is now 1 instead of 4 ppm. As I mentioned previously in that thread, with an acidic pH the ammonia is ammonium and not harmful. Your intended action in the other thread was fine, just give things time.

Your pH is not crashing, you have very soft water and the pH can be expected to lower, which is fine for the fish you have. I see nothing at all wrong here, other than the ammonia, but keep monitoring and keep us posted.

Byron.

The pH being so low acts like a buffer for the fish with the ammonia level.

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Not exactly, technically. It is rather complicated chemistry, but I'll try. Ammonia is non-ionized and has the formula NH3. Ammonium is ionized, and has the formula NH4+. The pH of the water determines which predominates, and if the pH changes, so will the ammonia/ammonium. The more basic the pH, the more ammonia, the more acidic, the less ammonia and more ammonium. As long as your pH remains acidic, "ammonia" showing in tests will be ammonium. Our test kits do not distinguish between ammonia and ammonium.

I still wouldn't want to see "ammonia" showing in tests, but at least there is no danger and it is decreasing so I think you are likely on the correct road.

But the low pH doesn't it inhibit beneficial bacteria from multiplying?

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To some extent, yes, but this also is not a problem. Here's an excerpt from an article on bacteria I wrote a few years back that will explain it:

The pH has a direct effect on nitrifying bacteria. These bacteriao perate at close to 100% effectiveness at a pH of 8.3, and this level of efficiency decreases as the pH lowers. At pH 7.0 efficiency is only 50%, at 6.5 only 30%, and at 6.0 only10%. Below 6.0 the bacteria enter a state of dormancy and cease functioning. [5] Fortunately, in acidic water (pH below 7.0) ammonia automatically ionizes into ammonium which is basically harmless. And since nitrite will not be produced when the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are in “hibernation,” this decrease in their effectiveness poses no immediate danger to the fish and other life forms.

Byron Amazonas said:

Not exactly, technically. It is rather complicated chemistry, but I'll try. Ammonia is non-ionized and has the formula NH3. Ammonium is ionized, and has the formula NH4+. The pH of the water determines which predominates, and if the pH changes, so will the ammonia/ammonium. The more basic the pH, the more ammonia, the more acidic, the less ammonia and more ammonium. As long as your pH remains acidic, "ammonia" showing in tests will be ammonium. Our test kits do not distinguish between ammonia and ammonium.

I still wouldn't want to see "ammonia" showing in tests, but at least there is no danger and it is decreasing so I think you are likely on the correct road.



To some extent, yes, but this also is not a problem. Here's an excerpt from an article on bacteria I wrote a few years back that will explain it:

The pH has a direct effect on nitrifying bacteria. These bacteriao perate at close to 100% effectiveness at a pH of 8.3, and this level of efficiency decreases as the pH lowers. At pH 7.0 efficiency is only 50%, at 6.5 only 30%, and at 6.0 only10%. Below 6.0 the bacteria enter a state of dormancy and cease functioning. [5] Fortunately, in acidic water (pH below 7.0) ammonia automatically ionizes into ammonium which is basically harmless. And since nitrite will not be produced when the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are in “hibernation,” this decrease in their effectiveness poses no immediate danger to the fish and other life forms.

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So, the nitrifying bacteria in my tanks are only 30%-35% effective? Thats bizarre.
Also, i thought ammonium is still harmful. Im not sure how ionized ammonia becomes harmless. Good excerpt Byron.

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ktrom13 said:

So, the nitrifying bacteria in my tanks are only 30%-35% effective? Thats bizarre.
Also, i thought ammonium is still harmful. Im not sure how ionized ammonia becomes harmless. Good excerpt Byron.

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There are a number of misconceptions or misunderstandings about bacteria in this hobby.

And I don't know if you are aware of it, but once a tank has gone through the "new" phase, the nitrifying bacteria disappear and are replaced by different organisms known as archaea. The carry out near-identical functions, namely oxidizing ammonia (first group) and then nitrite (second). Little has been done to study these (they were only discovered during the past decade), and I have not come across data as to their attributes comparable to nitrifying bacteria, thinking of dormancy in the absence of oxygen or food, if they can be killed off by chlorine, effects of temp and pH, etc. I think they are probably very similar, though I've no evidence for this.

PattyCakes81 said:

Thank you for your explanations, Byron! They are greatly appreciated.
Going to keep on posting updates on tank parameters so I can keep track.
Temp.: 75°F
Ammonia: 1ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrates: between 5ppm - 10ppm

pH: not 6.0 but no where near 6.4 (the color was not light yellow but not so much green tint to it like 6.4)

One question though:
Since there is nitrates and no nitrite, does it mean that which ever breaks down ammonia died off but not what breaks down nitrite?

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No. When you have live plants, they take up much of the ammonia as their preferred source of nitrogen. The Nitrosomonas bacteria will still establish and get some ammonia, but it will be less than what is taken up by the plants. The second stage bacteria, presumably Nitrospira sp, will also establish and take up the nitrite from the Nitrosomonas process. At the end of this, nitrate will appear. And there are other bacteria in the substrate primarily that can use this, and we remove some of it via water changes. Most aquatic plants will not use nitrate until the ammonia is exhausted because plants have to break the nitrate down back to ammonium and this takes energy so they only do this if they have no other option. Some botanists feel that plants will actually take up nitrite before nitrate, and there are scientific studies proving this does occur at least with some plant species, but here again, the evidence suggests that ammonium is taken up first, then nitrite, and then nitrate if the ammonium is insufficient to balance everything else. Unless you are running a high-tech system with high light and diffused CO2 and daily nutrient fertilization, there is not likely to be a shortage of ammonia/ammonium.

The level of nitrite in this scenario will be too low for our test kits to measure. The same applies to the ammonia, or should. This is why "cycling" in a new tank with live plants is what some term "silent," meaning it does occur but minimally to the extent that we cannot detect it. Obviously no harm occurs to fish by this silent cycling, thanks to the plants.

I'm still puzzled by this continuing ammonia. Can you set out the fish in the tank, and the plants? You've already determined it is not in the tap water, so it must be occurring within the system. It is not detrimental as I've said previously, but I would like to know why nonetheless.

Byron.