Seachem Acid Buffer

  • Get the NEW AquariaCentral iOS app --> http://itunes.apple.com/app/id1227181058 // Android version will be out soon!

FishFanMan

AC Members
Jun 13, 2013
691
0
16
Naperville, IL
My pH is about 8 and I'd like to lower that way down for my new tetras. Anyone use this product? Does it work well?
I'm thinking of buying a pH meter to precisely measure and maintain the pH in my new tank. Any recommendation also on a pH meter?

Thanks.
 

ktrom13

AC Members
Feb 4, 2013
1,238
0
0
boston
Real Name
Kyle
Maybe put some driftwood and use peat moss to buffer the water. This way less chemicals or things like that get into the water.

I havent used this product but id love to see how it works out in your case. If it works good i might just use it in my apistos tank

Sent from my SGH-T989 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App
 

Byron Amazonas

AC Members
Jul 22, 2013
986
2
18
73
Pitt Meadows (within Greater Vancouver, BC) Canada
Real Name
Byron
The pH is "buffered" by the carbonate hardness (KH or Alkalinity), so you first need to know the KH of your source water. Also, calcareous rock/gravel/sand if any in the aquarium will increase GH and pH, so that is another consideration. Attempts to lower the pH if the KH is moderately high or higher, will not be successful because the KH works to maintain a stable pH at the level in the tap water. No method whether leaves, peat, wood, chemicals, etc will lower the pH if the KH is buffering it, and with the chemicals the fluctuation is even worse on fish.

You can ascertain the KH by checking your water supply folks, likely on their website. No need to buy a kit, unless of course down the road you do decide to adjust GH/KH/pH. Once we know the numbers, we will be better able to suggest options.

Byron.
 

jpappy789

Plants need meat too
Feb 18, 2007
26,364
5
89
33
Gainesville, FL
Real Name
Josh
Personally, if I were to decide that I absolutely wanted to adjust water chemistry...I'd try "cutting" the source water with RO/DI first. As Byron mentioned, pH is not an isolated measurement, there are other factors at play (i.e. KH). It would be something you would have to play around with though, but generally if you could lower KH by mixing in RO/DI water, pH should follow along. In the end it may be a bit more work, but I think it would be more stable than a commercial buffer.

I usually check my municipality's water reports to get as much background info as possible on water chemistry, but they may not always reflect what it coming out of your tap. I would think that certain events (e.g. heavy rainfalls) could alter things depending on where your water is coming from and how it is treated...I like being able to get those numbers myself, and most liquid test kits are reasonably accurate and inexpensive for hobbyists' needs. JMO though...
 

FishFanMan

AC Members
Jun 13, 2013
691
0
16
Naperville, IL
I would like to create a tetra friendly tank and my target range for GH and KH is between 3 and 6 and pH of 6. That should be decent range for breeding environment I hope. I'd like some input on these params if you are breeding tetras.

My tap's GH is 9 and KH is 7 per API's test kit. My plan is to cut my tap using distilled water and slowly bring my GH and KH into the softness range first before messing with pH. So let's see what happens in the next couple weeks after I first create a softwater chemistry. I'm hoping the pH will come down also. The substrate is plain play sand which was rinsed countless times. I don't know how calcareous this sand is. I do have decent size DW and a good size river stone also.

I have cut my tap with distilled water for another tank with PFS and the GH/KH remained stable between WCs, so let's hope this play sand will be the same.

I'm new to breeding fish, so by all means please give all the advice to make this happen. If I succeed, I will happily give you all some for free!
 

Star_Rider

AC Moderators
Dec 21, 2005
11,731
1
38
67
Spanaway, Wa.
Real Name
Ed
I think you're on the right track with distilled tho I use RO filters as they are easier to maintain for me.
you may want to check into a good meter pH, TDS meter. the ro Filter doesn't discriminate on elements removed (nor does Distilled).

you would have to premix water prior to water changes tho keeping close eye on the tds/kh/gh
 

Byron Amazonas

AC Members
Jul 22, 2013
986
2
18
73
Pitt Meadows (within Greater Vancouver, BC) Canada
Real Name
Byron
The play sand will not mess with this, so no problems there (it is inert, or should be). Things should work much as in the other tank. And I think your target ranges should be fine, depending upon species [more below on this]. And I concur with others that diluting the GH/KH/pH with "pure" water is the better route. Rainwater is good for this too, as it will have an acidic pH and be zero GH/KH (or nearly).

A KH of 7 I would suggest is likely sufficient to prevent the acid buffer from working long-term. And in any event, these substances (any chemicals, additives, etc) are best avoided with characins as they are highly sensitive to these, much more than say cyprinids. If spawning is the aim, definitely no chemicals or additive other than dechlorinator and plant ferts (as minimal as you can) if plants are present.

As for breeding tetra, it depends a lot upon the species. I have near-zero GH/KH tap water, and my tanks run from pH 5 to 6.4; the variance has to do with various factors like wood, fish load, leaves, water changes, and adding Equilibrium to raise the GH in three of my six tanks to various levels. The tetra in my 115g which I maintain at a GH of 4-5 dGH and the pH runs around 6.4 spawn regularly. Species include Diamond Tetra, Rosy Tetra, Beckford pencilfish. The corys also spawn. I don't think the rummys and false rummys do, at least I have never seen them. I have had fry from the others mentioned survive now and then, but with so many fish in this tank (over 100) the eggs have little chance of surviving to hatch.

In my 33g which I just let drop naturally (0.5 dGH, pH is 5 or lower) my wild Nannostomus mortenthaleri pencilfish spawned several times. Various rasbora the same, and now the pygmy sparkling gourami. When I had chocolate gourami, they spawned several times under these conditions and fry survived.

The 70g I maintain around 3 dGH, pH around 6.2, and wild-caught N. eques pencilfish spawn readily, but again rarely do fry survive predation. The wild Farlowella vittata are forever spawning, and I have some fry growing out in the 10g. I also have Carnegiella sp hatchets, Loreto Tetra, Metae (Purple) Tetra and cardinal tetra in this tank, all wild caught, and once I did see a pair of cardinals going through the motions, but only the once. This rather surprised me, as cardinals have a light phobia and very dim lighting is usually suggested if spawning is wanted.

I might be able to offer more when I know the species intended, so feel free to ask.

Byron.
 

FishFanMan

AC Members
Jun 13, 2013
691
0
16
Naperville, IL
Byron, thanks for the in-depth info on your tanks. I would like to attempt to breed by new toucan tetras. My tap is 7 dKH, 9 dGH and 7.8 pH which are too high for breeding tetras. In order to bring KH down to say 2, I would need to cut DW with a ratio of 3 parts DW and 1 part my tap. This gives a measured 2 dKH and 3 dGH but the pH is still way high at 7.6. I'm in the process of adding about a gallon of DW to my tank once a day, so this will take a long time to get my tank down to 2 dKH.

My question now is how would I get my pH to 6 after I reach 2dKH in my tank if the pH is still around 7ish. I've looked very closely at Seachem's Acid Buffer. This product converts KH into CO2 and thereby lowers pH. But I believe this will not work for this application since my KH will already be low, and will reduce my pH buffering capacity further.

I could use straight tap in this tank and use this product to reduce both KH and pH to the target range but I don't think it will do anything to GH. Do you think low pH, low KH, but high (relatively for tetras) GH is an environment good for breeding tetras?

So now, I'm still looking for advice on how to lower pH without affecting KH or GH.

Thanks.
 

Byron Amazonas

AC Members
Jul 22, 2013
986
2
18
73
Pitt Meadows (within Greater Vancouver, BC) Canada
Real Name
Byron
Byron, thanks for the in-depth info on your tanks. I would like to attempt to breed by new toucan tetras. My tap is 7 dKH, 9 dGH and 7.8 pH which are too high for breeding tetras. In order to bring KH down to say 2, I would need to cut DW with a ratio of 3 parts DW and 1 part my tap. This gives a measured 2 dKH and 3 dGH but the pH is still way high at 7.6. I'm in the process of adding about a gallon of DW to my tank once a day, so this will take a long time to get my tank down to 2 dKH.

My question now is how would I get my pH to 6 after I reach 2dKH in my tank if the pH is still around 7ish. I've looked very closely at Seachem's Acid Buffer. This product converts KH into CO2 and thereby lowers pH. But I believe this will not work for this application since my KH will already be low, and will reduce my pH buffering capacity further.

I could use straight tap in this tank and use this product to reduce both KH and pH to the target range but I don't think it will do anything to GH. Do you think low pH, low KH, but high (relatively for tetras) GH is an environment good for breeding tetras?

So now, I'm still looking for advice on how to lower pH without affecting KH or GH.

Thanks.
I am assuming this toucan tetra is Tucanoichthys tucano that is profiled on SF [http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/tucanoichthys-tucano/] and about which there was another thread recently here on AC. These will be wild caught fish, so I agree that spawning will likely require water parameters very close to their habitat. Matt Ford in his profile on SF suggests pH 4.0 to 6.5 and GH 18-143ppm (1-8 dGH). The habitat is the Igarape Rio Yavuari, a tributary of the Rio Uaupés, in the upper Rio Negro basin. A very thick layer of leaves and wood form the substrate, so one suggestion would be to use dried leaves if you can; oak and beech work well, or you can buy almond leaves in some fish stores. Leaves and lots and lots of wood will add the essential tannins plus the microbacterial properties that is probably significant.

I certainly would not worry about buffering. As I mentioned with my tanks, none is used and the pH falls where it will. Ideal in your situation. If you can start with rainwater, this will make things much easier. With the KH near zero, the pH will lower naturally and remain there. Use of RO is another option. And get the GH as close to zero as you can; GH is of more significance to soft water fish than pH because the minerals in harder water mess with the physiology of the fish. The GH and KH in three of my tanks is zero, and the fish are thriving and spawning all over the place.

I still would avoid any chemical substances as these are going to affect the fish. Characins are very sensitive to these things. Once you get the water params, very dim lighting will probably help too. Matt mentions the creek is so dark that no aquatic plants are found in it. For this sort of biotope I like using lots of wood chunks and branches, a good layer of dry leaves, and then cover the surface with floating plants that will deal with water chemistry issues and provide shade.

Byron.
 

FishFanMan

AC Members
Jun 13, 2013
691
0
16
Naperville, IL
Yes, these are the Tucanoichthys tucano from the other thread.

Ok, so I'll just keep adding DW to the tank to reach 2 dKH. It's going to take a lot of DW to get there!
I live in Chicagoland, so I don't want to use rainwater as I'm sure it is heavily contaminated.
I'm amazed that some fish live in near zero KH/GH environment. I'm actually amazed that this exists in the wild actually. I wonder what the TDS is for that water. Do you know your TDS? I'll look for the leaves you mentioned. I think my Petsmart has some.

Currently, this 20 long is at 5 dKH, 7 dGH, 7.4 pH and 123 TDS. pH is lower now, so that's a good sign.

Here's a picture of one of the toucans.

photo.JPG

photo.JPG
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store