how are my plants doing?

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bobsaget

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Feb 19, 2011
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so i think i have a 30g tank, with 2 german blue rams, about 16 rummynose tetras, and 4 panda corys. i had stock lighting for all this time, and got some java fern and java moss. the moss never grew, just collected algae. the java fern would be constantly growing new little ferns, but they NEVER get large.

i finally got sick of the dull lighting, and also i wanted to grow plants. so i got a finnex ray (planted?) light for my tank. i also bought bacopa (caroliniana) and pogostemon erectus. ive only had the new lighting and those new plants in the tank for a few weeks. the LFS owner said that with this lighting, im going to need flourish. so i dose about half a cap every week or so (but i also do weekly water changes). i do not dose co2 and i dont plan on it. i was basically just trying to move a step up above having moss or ferns in my tank.

(please click images to enlarge)
here you can see the leaf starting to break in half and browing of edges of leaves


here you can see the browning and thinning of the leaves


the bottom is clearly rotting away...


as with the last two, they also are browning and dying off.







so what am i doing wrong here? as you can see the sand substrate is covered in algae as well, as long with the plants. i heard doing too much (or is it too little?) fertilizer will cause more algae? should i just do a blackout for a few days? will the plants be ok that way? regardless..how can i get these plants to grow healthier? and what are the proper techniques for .. i guess, multiplying these plants? with the java fern, new ferns would just grow on a dead leaf, and i would just take that and let that new fern grow. how does it work with stem plants?



p.s. just for added fun..heres a couple pics of my tank about a week and a half before the pictures i posted above were taken. (notice the bacopa looking healthier when it was newly introduced into my tank?)



 

Byron Amazonas

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You made a rather large leap in terms of plants, from low light/low nutrient to stem plants that are high light/high nutrient requiring. It may be best to settle more in the middle, but first we need some more information.

Can you post a link to the data on the light you now have? And am I correct in assuming that the algae was not a problem until the new light?

Second, water changes; how much of the tank volume and are they every week? And just how often and how much Flourish Comprehensive [I assume this is the Flourish product, Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium?] are you using? And do you know the GH of your tap water? Water changes are a source of the "hard" minerals which are not (or may not be, depending) sufficient in Flourish.

You are correct that too much fertilizer can cause algae, but so can too little. It is all about balance between light intensity and nutrient availability; duration of light also factors in but the intensity is crucial as different plants have different needs. Algae will take advantage when something is out of balance, whether light (too much, too little) or nutrient fertilization.

Many plants experience a slowing down when moved to a new environment, but I'm fairly certain that I see more than this in the photos.

Byron.
 

bobsaget

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Feb 19, 2011
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You made a rather large leap in terms of plants, from low light/low nutrient to stem plants that are high light/high nutrient requiring. It may be best to settle more in the middle, but first we need some more information.

Can you post a link to the data on the light you now have? And am I correct in assuming that the algae was not a problem until the new light?

Second, water changes; how much of the tank volume and are they every week? And just how often and how much Flourish Comprehensive [I assume this is the Flourish product, Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium?] are you using? And do you know the GH of your tap water? Water changes are a source of the "hard" minerals which are not (or may not be, depending) sufficient in Flourish.

You are correct that too much fertilizer can cause algae, but so can too little. It is all about balance between light intensity and nutrient availability; duration of light also factors in but the intensity is crucial as different plants have different needs. Algae will take advantage when something is out of balance, whether light (too much, too little) or nutrient fertilization.

Many plants experience a slowing down when moved to a new environment, but I'm fairly certain that I see more than this in the photos.

Byron.
i was told that these plants would be doing just fine in my tank with the lighting he suggested :/ i would be more than happy to hear other plant suggestions though!!! (im sure you can see my floating plants in the bottom pictures..those are doing FANTASTIC)

sure thing byron, this seems to be the correct lighting fixture. http://www.amazon.com/Finnex-FugeRay-Planted-Aquarium-Moonlights/dp/B00GH9HSI0 . my tank is near my sliding glass window. depending on the time of day, light shines directly onto the tank. also, i tend to have the lights on between 8am when i leave for work till about 9pm when i go to bed. maybe turning the tank light on at 6pm (when i get home) and leaving it on until 9-10 (when i get to bed) would be better? algae has always been sort of a problem..but it seems to have gotten worse with the new lighting and dosing fert.

lets see, its a 30g tank i believe, and i have two 2.5g buckets. i will remove 5 gallons of water from the tank about once a week/week and a half. just before i installed the new lighting/plants/new cories, i did a major scenery change, and also removed probably 10-15 gallons of water. but on the norm, its always about 5 gallons. you are correct on the flourish product. as ive only had all these new items for 2-3 weeks, its all i can go by..my routine has been..water change-then re-add flourish. they say a cap is for 60gallons, so i try to use about half a cap. and i do not know the GH of my tap water unfortunately.
 

gmh

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It doesn not take much direct light to create algae problems. And while not expert on led lights I would definitely cut back on the photoperiod, especaillyl with that natural light added to the mix. A timer is a good investment. Maybe start with 8 hrs per day and go from there.
I also add a little liquid carbon to my tank daily and it makes a big difference as well in plant growth and keeping algae in check.
 

Byron Amazonas

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i was told that these plants would be doing just fine in my tank with the lighting he suggested :/ i would be more than happy to hear other plant suggestions though!!! (im sure you can see my floating plants in the bottom pictures..those are doing FANTASTIC)
Floating plants are easiest because they have what we call the aerial advantage. Being at the surface, they are (1) closer to the light, and (2) able to take up CO2 (carbon dioxide) from the air rather than relying on water like the lower plants. Plants can take up CO2 about four times faster from air than water. With these factors, they are faster growing and use more nutrients from the water such as ammonia, which is why they are so useful especially in new setups. And they have a double positive benefit, by controlling light which helps to inhibit algae, plus by using the nutrients so heavily they control algae directly.

The lower stem plants may be fine once we balance everything, as I'll allude to further on.

sure thing byron, this seems to be the correct lighting fixture. http://www.amazon.com/Finnex-FugeRay-Planted-Aquarium-Moonlights/dp/B00GH9HSI0 . my tank is near my sliding glass window. depending on the time of day, light shines directly onto the tank. also, i tend to have the lights on between 8am when i leave for work till about 9pm when i go to bed. maybe turning the tank light on at 6pm (when i get home) and leaving it on until 9-10 (when i get to bed) would be better? algae has always been sort of a problem..but it seems to have gotten worse with the new lighting and dosing fert.
My experience with LED is very limited, but from the data at the link I think you have a very good unit. The nanometers and kelvin are bang on. The fellow in the store may have known what he was talking about (sometimes they do, sometimes not, lol). But I agree with gmh that your duration and the daylight factor are in need of change. This is undoubtedly the cause of the algae; the light is ion excess of what the plants can use in balance with nutrients.

First thing is to eliminate as much of the daylight as you can. As an example of how this can impact things, I have my tanks in a dedicated fish room with a large west facing window. I noticed after I moved here that brush algae increased in the summer, and it took me a couple summers to work out that it was because of the additional length and intensity of summer sunlight entering the room. I have blinds and heavy drapes that remain closed in the summer now, and for the past three I have not had algae increases. Depending upon your situation, you should try to do something to reduce the daylight.

The duration of the tank lighting is also likely greater than what is needed to balance nutrients. Sometimes you need to work out the photoperiod that works best; starting with no more than 8 hours like gmh suggested is good; a timer is best for this, plus it has the benefit of a regular daily period of light/dark and this is essential for fish and plant health. The photoperiod should be when you are normally home to enjoy the tank, obviously. Perhaps on at 2 or 3 pm, off at 10 pm? Make sure there is no less than half an hour after the tank light goes off before the room is dark; ambient room light is very important to prevent shocking the fish with on/off lights. [I won't go into these aspects of light periods/fish health now, but can if asked.]

lets see, its a 30g tank i believe, and i have two 2.5g buckets. i will remove 5 gallons of water from the tank about once a week/week and a half. just before i installed the new lighting/plants/new cories, i did a major scenery change, and also removed probably 10-15 gallons of water. but on the norm, its always about 5 gallons. you are correct on the flourish product. as ive only had all these new items for 2-3 weeks, its all i can go by..my routine has been..water change-then re-add flourish. they say a cap is for 60gallons, so i try to use about half a cap. and i do not know the GH of my tap water unfortunately.
I would increase the volume of each water change to 1/3 to 1/2 the tank, closer to the latter; this does help in controlling algae, but even more importantly it is beneficial to fish. And make sure it is regular, once a week; set aside a time when you normally will be free every week, say Saturday morning, or Sunday morning, and stick with it. Much better for fish and plants.

Add the Flourish Comprehensive after the water change. For a 30g, one half teaspoon is the dose. Once a week should be sufficient with the reduced photoperiod, but if after a few weeks [always give things 2-3 weeks to settle after a change] if it seems needed, a second dose three days later can be tried. It can take some experimenting to find the balance I keep mentioning. Another example from my tanks, in my 90g I found that one dose of Flourish Comp a week was fine, but a second caused a rapid increase in brush algae on plant leaves. I did the experiment twice, same results. Other tanks are different, because the biology in each tank can be different.

I personally would not use one of the liquid carbon supplements like Excel. This is a highly toxic chemical, glutaraldehyde, and some plants will be melted with the recommended dose; if overdosed, plants, fish and bacteria may be killed. It carries cautions for humans using it. There is sufficient natural CO2 in most aquaria for the plants; we just have to find that balance.

On the GH, this is important, and you should be able to get this from the water supply people if you are on municipal water (as opposed to a private well). Check their website. If you can't fathom the data, post the link and I will take a look. GH is governed by the "hard" minerals and these are not only important to plants (calcium for instance is a macronutrient essential to build plant cells) but can be factors in algae too.

Hope this is helpful.

Byron.
 

bobsaget

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Feb 19, 2011
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thanks byron. i close my blinds so less light can hit the tank during the day. i leave the tank light off, until i get home at 6pm and it stays on until i go to bed around 10-12. thats the best i can do for now, until i get a timer. i will do larger water changes in the future (dont mind doing that at all) so far the plants are continuing to look like they are dying, but i will give it time. i dont know my GH still, but i will link my utilitys website. i dont even know where to look to find the GH. http://www.snopud.com/
 

wesleydnunder

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You can purchase a plug-in timer at the hardware store; Lowe's, HD, etc.

I've found these to be indispensable for controlling the lights on my tanks.

Mark
 

Byron Amazonas

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thanks byron. i close my blinds so less light can hit the tank during the day. i leave the tank light off, until i get home at 6pm and it stays on until i go to bed around 10-12. thats the best i can do for now, until i get a timer. i will do larger water changes in the future (dont mind doing that at all) so far the plants are continuing to look like they are dying, but i will give it time. i dont know my GH still, but i will link my utilitys website. i dont even know where to look to find the GH. http://www.snopud.com/
Found it. If you open this page
http://www.snopud.com/home/watermain/wqr.ashx?p=1212
you will see on the right two reports, depending where you live. Click on the appropriate link, and scroll down the report that will open, and you will see on the right side a chart with total hardness, Alkalinity, pH. The numbers vary in each report, but minimally. You have very soft water, as I suspected once I saw that you are in western Washington. Oregon, western Washington and SW BC where I live all have very soft water.

So this means your fast growing stem plants will likely be lacking the "hard" minerals like calcium primarily. I have the same issue with fast growing stem plants like Wisteria. The hard minerals in liquid fertilizers are not sufficient to make up for such soft water, and while many plants (the somewhat slower growing) will be OK, the fastest-growing will not.

All of this impacts algae. Plants need sufficient light intensity and all nutrients in order to photosynthesize (grow). As soon as one of these is missing, photosynthesis slows and algae has the advantage.

We can discuss more suitable plants for your water, or we can discuss additives to up the hard minerals. What fish do you have? This has to be considered because there is not much value in going contrary to their needs just to have a couple plant species.

Byron.
 

ROYWS3

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I just wanted to add that your plants are not "rotting away" as you put it in your initial post. Yes, the bottom leaves are rotting and that could mean a number of things but the stems are still viable and look healthy. try to get some of those decaying leaves out of the water column; they're only adding to the excess nutrients that continue to fuel your algae. I would suggest that you separate your stems out from the bunch and plant them separately. This will allow the lower leaves to receive more light and not turn to mush - although what you have rotting may just be emersed growth that will not survive submersed anyway and your plants are just making the transition (the bacopa at least). I would also add at least four more bunches of fast growing stem plants to help soak up those excess nutrients but as Byron said you want to choose stems that will do well in your water
 

bobsaget

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Feb 19, 2011
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Found it. If you open this page
http://www.snopud.com/home/watermain/wqr.ashx?p=1212
you will see on the right two reports, depending where you live. Click on the appropriate link, and scroll down the report that will open, and you will see on the right side a chart with total hardness, Alkalinity, pH. The numbers vary in each report, but minimally. You have very soft water, as I suspected once I saw that you are in western Washington. Oregon, western Washington and SW BC where I live all have very soft water.

So this means your fast growing stem plants will likely be lacking the "hard" minerals like calcium primarily. I have the same issue with fast growing stem plants like Wisteria. The hard minerals in liquid fertilizers are not sufficient to make up for such soft water, and while many plants (the somewhat slower growing) will be OK, the fastest-growing will not.

All of this impacts algae. Plants need sufficient light intensity and all nutrients in order to photosynthesize (grow). As soon as one of these is missing, photosynthesis slows and algae has the advantage.

We can discuss more suitable plants for your water, or we can discuss additives to up the hard minerals. What fish do you have? This has to be considered because there is not much value in going contrary to their needs just to have a couple plant species.

Byron.
i have about 16 rummy nose tetras, two german blue rams, and 3 panda cories (these are new additions..ive bought 7, and only 3 have managed to make it...)
 
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