I've got some sort of deficiencies and I need help, please? :)

jennesque · Jun 28, 2014

This close up shot is the area that looks the worst in my tank, but as you can see I've got something going on. I'm suspecting at least part of it is due to my BN pleco - should I just rehome her? :/ But I do have leaves yellowing so that can't be the only issue.

My pennywort is in the back has quite a few leaves on only some of the plants that have a lot of holes in them. I am thinking these once had a lot of algae on them though, because I did cut back on my floaters a couple weeks back and did get an algae problem for a short while. Most of the new growth does seem healthy.

The short plant towards the bottom is a "rosette sword", and none of these are looking all too hot -- this one is definitely the worst. These have yellowing and then browning leaves, some lacing, and some leaves that are disintegrating to just a brown lace where the veins of the leaf once was.

The large leaves are one of my Amazon swords and its leaves are all staying green, they just do have these holes in them... I think that may just be the pleco, but please correct me if I'm wrong!

It's a 75 gallon tank, no CO2. I dose Flourish Comp one, occasionally two times a week - if I remember. This tank has been up since March 6th and I started out with Oscomote + root tabs but thought my plants may need more calcium so I switched back to the Flourish tabs I had used in the past - I'm still seeing lacing and yellowing since I switched about a week ago though. Not sure how quickly the switch should be showing an effect if there is going to be any. For lighting, I have two Current USA Satellite PLUS LED lights, which I believe should have a similar par level to two t8s - although I'm not really sure. It seems like it may be a bit brighter than that. The one light is on for about 10 hours and the second light comes on for about 7 - but the second light is on a sort of "cloud" setting right now so it does dim and get brighter every 15 seconds or so - so it's not on full blast the whole time. LEDs are 6500K, possible 6700K - I can't remember. Lastly, I know I do have very soft water, maybe 1-3 dGH.. I do weekly water changes but I don't feel like that adds much as far as nutrients for the plants.

Everything's been sending off runners or producing plantlets, but it seems like almost everything but my little kleiner prinz sword and my pygmy chain sword are struggling. Also, some of the pennywort stems look perfectly fine, others look awful but only below the surface of the water.

Pictures are a close up (excuse my Ember and Cardinal tetras

) and also a FTS - excuse the mess, water change day is tomorrow! And sorry the close up is showing up sideways on here - not sure why :/

Byron Amazonas · Jun 29, 2014

Hi jennesque--I believe I know you from another forum, which we will not name...:thud:

To your question. I doubt very much this is due to the pleco. I say that because I have (had, but it still surfaces periodically) almost the identical issue in my 70g. It is nutrient deficiencies.

First, can you pin down the exact GH of your source water? I have found Diana Walstad's advice on calcium deficiencies to be relevant in my situation so I suspect yours too, and that is that 4 dGH is about the minimum for some plants such as swords. I found that my chain swords can manage with near-zero GH but not the larger species, and I also had this issue for certain other plants. Pennywort included.

There is more here than just calcium though. I don't know anything about the LED lighting, but if your info is accurate, it should be OK. I have two T8 4-foot tubes over my 70g, on for seven hours daily to keep algae at bay (the shallower depth of this tank compared to my 90g and 5-foot 115g with the same lighting does make a difference with algae).

Flourish Comprehensive once a week may be sufficient; I have had brush algae suddenly increase with a second weekly dose. You might want to give Flourish Trace a try, also once a week (same time as the Comp, right after the water change). I experimented with this and found the Comp + Trace did not cause the alghae increase compared to twice with Comp alone, which I had been doing for the "hard" minerals. I'm using Equilibrium for the extra GH and this has done wonders.

I've also experimented with iron in addition to the Comp and Trace, and I believe this is also helping now. You could get the small bottle of both Flourish Trace and Flourish Iron and try them. I add all these together, right after the water change; I use the amount recommended on the labels for one dose; in my 70g this equates to 1 teaspoon of Flourish Comp, 3 tsp of Trace, and 1 tsp of iron. These amounts are for 60g of water.

It usually takes a couple weeks to notice any effects, positive or negative, from changes. When I was working all this out, I used the products for say 5 weeks, then changed for 5 weeks, then changed again/back; and then I repeated the "changes" to see if the results were the same, and they were, so I knew things were sorting themselves out.

Let me know the GH and I'll consider if anything else may be needed. BTW, I also use Flourish Tabs next to the larger swords, one per plant replaced every three months.

Byron.

jennesque · Jun 29, 2014

yes. You do know me from a previous forum. And then I had emailed you for help with stocking and thank you again, my fish are doing wonderfully. Much better than the plants, haha.

You had told me before to keep the GH up but I wasn't sure at which level. I ended up switching around a lot of my plants when I moved everything into the 75 gallon. My previous plants had been fine so I got out of that habit.

My tap water in the API test turned green on the second drop. I did the KH test as well, just because, and it is also changed after two drops.

When I started suspecting a calcium deficiency about two weeks ago, I started adding a product very similar to equilibrium. My tank water is slightly harder than my tap water. It took 3 drops to change to green. I've been scared to start messing with the GH much, so I've only been treating the volume of water I was adding. The dosing they provide increases the GH by 5dGH.

I will pick up the Trace and Iron on my payday. I had been considering dosing them as well. Also, when you had helped me before you told me I probably had a potassium deficiency. I have been using Seachem's Premier as a water conditioner (which is a trace source of potassium). The product that increases GH also contains potassium, magnesium, and calcium if I remember correctly.. So hopefully the potassium problem is resolved.

I'd actually been able to grow vals in my tank, which they melted the one the I tried them years ago. I had chalked that up to having too soft and acidic of water. Since the vals were surviving, I was hoping something had changed in my tap water.

Byron Amazonas · Jun 29, 2014

jennesque said:
yes. You do know me from a previous forum. And then I had emailed you for help with stocking and thank you again, my fish are doing wonderfully. Much better than the plants, haha.

You had told me before to keep the GH up but I wasn't sure at which level. I ended up switching around a lot of my plants when I moved everything into the 75 gallon. My previous plants had been fine so I got out of that habit.

My tap water in the API test turned green on the second drop. I did the KH test as well, just because, and it is also changed after two drops.

When I started suspecting a calcium deficiency about two weeks ago, I started adding a product very similar to equilibrium. My tank water is slightly harder than my tap water. It took 3 drops to change to green. I've been scared to start messing with the GH much, so I've only been treating the volume of water I was adding. The dosing they provide increases the GH by 5dGH.

I will pick up the Trace and Iron on my payday. I had been considering dosing them as well. Also, when you had helped me before you told me I probably had a potassium deficiency. I have been using Seachem's Premier as a water conditioner (which is a trace source of potassium). The product that increases GH also contains potassium, magnesium, and calcium if I remember correctly.. So hopefully the potassium problem is resolved.

I'd actually been able to grow vals in my tank, which they melted the one the I tried them years ago. I had chalked that up to having too soft and acidic of water. Since the vals were surviving, I was hoping something had changed in my tap water.

Yes, you're correct; I actually have the email exchange on the stocking. Nice to hear from you again.

Vallisneria can manage in soft water but in my experience not all that well; it is best in moderately hard water since it is quick to use bicarbonates as a source of carbon. Many aquarium plants do better with CO2, and some like mosses cannot use bicarbonates at all. Many of the stem plants also do best with more of the "hard" minerals; being fast growing they need the calcium, magnesium, etc.

Sounds like you are using the new Seachem line of plant products, AquaVitro. And I assume the GH increase liquid in that line. I haven't tried this line yet, they are terribly expensive in local stores and so far not available in bulk online, so I'm still using the Flourish line and Equilibrium. I would increase the GH to at least 4, probably 5 dGH. I keep mine around 5-6 and it seems to be sufficient. And there are other minerals in this as you say, no issue there.

Potassium is often mentioned for holes in leaves, but adding this did nothing in my situation which as I said earlier looks exactly like your swords. And only in my 70g, oddly; anyway, I found the Trace, iron and Equilibrium worked. A couple months ago I cut back a bit on the Equilibrium, to see what would happen, and perhaps not surprisingly, the ruffled swords in this tank began getting holes in the leaves again. It takes a few weeks to see changes, so one has to be careful not to change too much too quickly, as you need to find out just what does or doesn't work for a problem.

Byron.

jennesque · Jun 29, 2014

I only bought their AquaVitro conditioner, and that was when it was on sale.

It is a pretty expensive line. The GH booster is similar to Equilibrium. It's a dry powder and it's made by Brightwell Aquatics. That was all my LFS had at the time. Now I think they stopped carrying that too, and only sell the liquid treatments.. I will probably be shopping online when I'm ready to restock on my fertilizers and additives.. having a 75 gallon tank now, the smaller bottles at my LFS just aren't worth it!

I will start using the full dosing of the GH booster and start using the trace and iron. I've pretty much built my tanks around the articles you've written, and since your tap water is fairly similar to mine, I'm pretty sure using all the products is what will work.

Thank you so much for all the help.. I love my new tank, it's calm, peaceful.. And once the plants get a bit healthier, it will be beautiful.

Byron Amazonas · Jun 30, 2014

jennesque said:
I only bought their AquaVitro conditioner, and that was when it was on sale. It is a pretty expensive line. The GH booster is similar to Equilibrium. It's a dry powder and it's made by Brightwell Aquatics. That was all my LFS had at the time. Now I think they stopped carrying that too, and only sell the liquid treatments.. I will probably be shopping online when I'm ready to restock on my fertilizers and additives.. having a 75 gallon tank now, the smaller bottles at my LFS just aren't worth it!

I will start using the full dosing of the GH booster and start using the trace and iron. I've pretty much built my tanks around the articles you've written, and since your tap water is fairly similar to mine, I'm pretty sure using all the products is what will work.

Thank you so much for all the help.. I love my new tank, it's calm, peaceful.. And once the plants get a bit healthier, it will be beautiful.

My pleasure, and thank you. On the GH, go slow. It took me a few weeks to work out the correct amount to maintain a GH of 5. In my case, the GH seemed to go higher than what they were suggesting with the tablespoon. I worked it out so that in the 115g when I change half the tank I add three level tablespoons; same in the 90g and it holds at 6 in this tank which is what I want. In the 70g I use two tbs and it stays around 4. Measure the GH just before a water change to see where the tank is running. It was interesting to me that in spite of the plants needing this, they never seem to use much. I found that raising the GH to 5 dGH at the water change (measured the following day after it has all mixed in), it would stay at 5 all week. I had expected to see a decrease due to use by the plants, but presumably they are mainly using the calcium and the other minerals like magnesium also create the GH. In other words, you can't measure how much the plants are using, but they do use it; with lower levels I see calcium deficiencies fairly quickly.

I've not used Brightwell Aquatics products but from what I've seen they are much the same as the Seachem Flourish line. I use the latter because it is considerably less expensive; once you get this down to know just what you need and how much, you may find buying them online in the largest sizes to be a considerable savings over time. I save hundreds of dollars this way, between my plant ferts and water conditioner, and these products last for months, even years.

Byron.


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I've got some sort of deficiencies and I need help, please? :)

jennesque

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Byron Amazonas

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