Tiger Barb: Couple Questions in School Size and Odd Behavior

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dbcb314

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Howdy,

I currently have 9 Tiger Barbs in a 90 gallon tank with the only other resident at the moment being a young-ish Firemouth cichlid.

I realize the reputation of Tiger Barbs and their need for bigger schoals so they leave others alone. However, I noticed a couple of them nipping at my Firemouth yesterday and was wondering if that means I should up the size of the school some more? Is that a sign that I need even more in the tank for them to just bother themselves?

And if I add say... albinos or green tiger barbs, will they school with the normal ones as well?


Lastly, there is one tiger barb that acts different than the other 8. It is the best colored and brightest of them. But it almost always is by itself, usually at the top of the tank. It never schools with the other 8 but he is never picked on either. Eats fine, probably the biggest of them... it just doesn't act liek the other ones. Is that normal or is something likely wrong with it?

thanks
 
rufioman

rufioman

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Your brighter loner is the alpha of your tiger barbs. They are picking at the firemouth because he is the only other fish in a giant tank, and therefore an easy target for them. In a 90g tank you could easily do 25 tiger barbs with that firemouth, though I do not know if albinos, blues, greens, etc. will act the same. Having said that I do not think it will be a problem.
 
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dbcb314

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rufioman said:
Your brighter loner is the alpha of your tiger barbs. They are picking at the firemouth because he is the only other fish in a giant tank, and therefore an easy target for them. In a 90g tank you could easily do 25 tiger barbs with that firemouth, though I do not know if albinos, blues, greens, etc. will act the same. Having said that I do not think it will be a problem.
Click to expand...
Gotcha cool thanks. I figured he was the bossman.

I plan on some more cichlids and such in there, jsut have to wait for the right ones.

Think I may increase the school to 12ish though. Maybe 15. I don't want to overstock it though
 
Byron Amazonas

Byron Amazonas

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What Heath says is true, but there is unfortunately more to this. And I see a problem here.

I always counsel against cichids with Tiger Barbs or similar fish that tend to fin nip. The temptation is too great. Cichlids are all fairly sedate fish; they rarely swim much (in the sense that barbs are active swimmers), preferring to cruise around poking at the substrate, bogwood, plant leaves for tidbits of food. Most cichlids have fins that frequently wave a bit. All of this is like the red flag in front of a bull. The barbs like the bull may not attack, but experience shows they often will.

The other thing is that once the barbs have begun nipping, they rarely stop no matter what changes. Adding more will not hurt, but don't expect the nipping to cease. It may increase or stay the same.

As for the Firemouth, although this is a mildly aggressive cichlid, it is also a very nervous fish; external noise will stress it, and tankmates must not be aggressive or boisterous. An aquarium with plenty of branches and floating plants will suit it admirably. It prefers quiet water, so the filter flow should not be excessive. The nipping of the barbs may well "destroy" this fish if not quickly resolved; by destroy I do not mean kill it, but this sort of bullying usually if not always causes severe stress which when it becomes acute as it quickly does, means permanent internal damage and a weakened fish.

I would recommend you consider which of two options you have. First is to stay with your intended cichlids, in which case I would re-home the Tiger Barb now and find more suitable fish. There are some nice barbs that would work well...one that comes to mind is the Black Ruby; it has a somewhat similar pattern, plus that beautiful ruby red head and almost totally black of the mature males. I have a group of these in with Congo Tetra, also flowing fins, without any problems, and I have had this combo for three years. I recently added more young barbs (Black Rubys) and they too have not even looked at the Congo's fins. You have the space and could increase the Firemouths; they do well in a small groups. In its natural habitat this species is always found in such groups, though not strictly a "shoaling" fish like the barbs; nervous fish do find security with others around them, and this is no doubt the case here.

Second option is to stay with the Tigers, and up the group, but remove the Firemouth and forget cichlids. Other barbs, danios, substrate fish are possible.

Hope this helps.

Byron.
 
Glabe

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^^^ +1
 
Glabe

Glabe

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Greens, albinos, and normals will all school happily together. If the barbs in the new group are a bit smaller that the rest of the barbs, they may stick to themselves for a while before joining the current school
 
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dbcb314

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Byron Amazonas said:
What Heath says is true, but there is unfortunately more to this. And I see a problem here.

I always counsel against cichids with Tiger Barbs or similar fish that tend to fin nip. The temptation is too great. Cichlids are all fairly sedate fish; they rarely swim much (in the sense that barbs are active swimmers), preferring to cruise around poking at the substrate, bogwood, plant leaves for tidbits of food. Most cichlids have fins that frequently wave a bit. All of this is like the red flag in front of a bull. The barbs like the bull may not attack, but experience shows they often will.

The other thing is that once the barbs have begun nipping, they rarely stop no matter what changes. Adding more will not hurt, but don't expect the nipping to cease. It may increase or stay the same.

As for the Firemouth, although this is a mildly aggressive cichlid, it is also a very nervous fish; external noise will stress it, and tankmates must not be aggressive or boisterous. An aquarium with plenty of branches and floating plants will suit it admirably. It prefers quiet water, so the filter flow should not be excessive. The nipping of the barbs may well "destroy" this fish if not quickly resolved; by destroy I do not mean kill it, but this sort of bullying usually if not always causes severe stress which when it becomes acute as it quickly does, means permanent internal damage and a weakened fish.

I would recommend you consider which of two options you have. First is to stay with your intended cichlids, in which case I would re-home the Tiger Barb now and find more suitable fish. There are some nice barbs that would work well...one that comes to mind is the Black Ruby; it has a somewhat similar pattern, plus that beautiful ruby red head and almost totally black of the mature males. I have a group of these in with Congo Tetra, also flowing fins, without any problems, and I have had this combo for three years. I recently added more young barbs (Black Rubys) and they too have not even looked at the Congo's fins. You have the space and could increase the Firemouths; they do well in a small groups. In its natural habitat this species is always found in such groups, though not strictly a "shoaling" fish like the barbs; nervous fish do find security with others around them, and this is no doubt the case here.

Second option is to stay with the Tigers, and up the group, but remove the Firemouth and forget cichlids. Other barbs, danios, substrate fish are possible.

Hope this helps.

Byron.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this information. I didn't encounter this information when I was doing moderate research on the fish. I have always heard the "if the school was big enough they will fight among themselves" line.

I will definitely keep this in mind. I am not ready to give up yet. The tank was quite bare when I made this post (literally just fish) and there was no where for anyone to hide or keep busy.

I added in some cheap decorations just to give the firemouth some place to chill away from the barbs as well as give the barbs something else to look at. So far that seems tohave stopped the nipping but I will definitely keep an eye on it and adjust accordingly.

I would like to keep the barbs. There interactions with each other are much more interesting than other schooling fish I have kept which is what drove me to keep them. Hopefully it works out.

I also upped the school size from 9 to 11.
 
Glabe

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If you want to see some really fun interactions, drop in some ghost shrimp that are just the right size to stick halfway out of their mouths when they eat them.

It becomes a big game of keepaway :D
 
rufioman

rufioman

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Sorry, didn't read that it was that small of a firemouth. Barbs go for it dude. They make stunning centerpiece shoals though...have you thought about substrate dwellers?
 
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dbcb314

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rufioman said:
Sorry, didn't read that it was that small of a firemouth. Barbs go for it dude. They make stunning centerpiece shoals though...have you thought about substrate dwellers?
Click to expand...
I didn't list the size of the firemouth??? It isn't full grown but it definitely isn't a baby either. easily 3x the size of the barbs.


Since I put in the hiding places, the barbs have ignored the firemouth and the firemouth has began to act more confidently. So, fingers crossed.

The barbs are too busy fighting with themselves... I think the 2 new ones I added upset the chain of command a bit. For a schooling fish, these guys are quite interesting. It doesn't seem like the alpha is the alpha any longer.....
 
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