cycling, high amonia levels,filtration,tank size, help!

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ffmurray

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Oct 6, 2014
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Ithaca NY
My 55g freshwater aquarium sprung a leak, I had to pull everything out and reseal it, when I took the gravel out I put it damp into a plastic storage container with a lid, the filter media went into closed ziplock bags. I was trying to keep everything good to go so the tank wouldnt cycle when I put the fish back in. The tank had 1 large comet, 2 medium comets and a smaller pleco. The tank is filtered by a Fluval Aqua Clear 70g filter with 2 sponges a carbon bag and a bag of bio media in that order. there are two air stones and two power heads in the tank to add to circulation and aeration. the tank temp is 72 degrees. After I got the tank set up on the 7th I had to do a 4 day shift. My wife fed the fish as normal. Late night on the 11th when I got home I tested the water in the tank with my API freshwater master test kit
11th test:
PH: 8.2 Ammonia: 4.0ppm Nitrite: 0ppm Nitrate: 5.0ppm

I did a 25% water change and then had to sleep. This morning I got up and tested the tank again

12th 7:30am test:
PH: 8.2 Ammonia:4.0ppm Nitrite: 0ppm Nitrate: 5.0ppm

I did an immediate 50% water change put in Top Fin Bacterial supplement and went off to do some errands. I did not feed the fish this morning.

12th 4:00pm test:
PH: 8.2 Ammonia: 1.0ppm Nitrite: 0ppm Nitrate: 0ppm

So it seems to be getting better, but the nitrate has completely disappeared and that confuses me a little bit. Am I right in thinking that no Nitrite and High Ammonia mean the tank is doing a cycle? Should I keep doing water changes, and if so how much should I do and how often. I dont know if I keep changing the water out if the tank will have trouble getting established. My normal weekly schedule is to do a water change of about 25% - 33% and vacuum the gravel. Im thinking that I also need to add another filter, I was thinking about adding another fluval aqua clear 70g to the tank, but am pretty strapped for cash at the moment, I can do more maintenence in the mean time until I can get more filtration, Im also thinking of getting a canister filter, something that i can oversize quite a bit because the fish are pretty large, the large comet is 5-1/2" long not counting the tail and the others are about 4" long without the tail, the pleco is 4" total length. Ive had the fish for about 7 years now. I bought the comets as little 28 cent feeder fish in collage, had them in a 5 gallon tank and eventually the 55g. Ive been doing this a while but by no means am an expert, Id actually consider myself a beginner. Im glad to be on the forum, Ive been reading a lot and learning a lot. Id also like to put these same fish in a larger tank once funds allow because of their size, and id like to only move them up in size once but thats probably a question for another thread.

sorry for the barrage of questions I appreciate all the help.
 

sumthin fishy

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Aug 22, 2005
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I assume sealing the tank took a while. Without a source of ammonia and oxygen, you likely lost all your bacteria from the gravel and filter media. So basically you started over a "fishy" cycle. Check the article in my sig. You are in for daily water changes to keep levels safe for your fish untill the bacteria is established again.

Do you have powerheads alone or do they have media? I use a small powerhead filter in my 10 gallon for my CO2 injection. I was using a normal powerhead, but switched to one with a filter section just for the added biofiltration (I alternate rinsing filters in my water change water every other week) I would say a 70g rated filter is plenty for a 55, but If you feel you need more you could simply add filter sponges cut to fit the powerheads. The biofiltration will only establish to existing ammonia sources. So any bacteria establishing on the powerhead sponges will compete for food with the regular filter. Not a bad thing to have biofiltration in more than one place, but just know that you will not have any "extra" biofiltration. The idea there is only that if one filter fails, the other will catch up and take it's place in a short time, rather than re-start a cycle with a new filter. As for water polishing (removing excess wastes/solids) if your water is generally clear, I wouldn't worry about more filtration. If you want the water to clear up, the prefiltering of the powerheads will do that too.
 

ffmurray

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Oct 6, 2014
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a fishy cycle... thats what i was afraid of. Is there something I could have done to prevent the bacteria from dying off. Has anyone tried putting that stuff in a buvket with an airstone. I ask partly out of curiosity and partly out of future need. I may be moving in about six months or so, localy but still, I dont want to take any chances with stressing my fish even more.

If you feel you need more you could simply add filter sponges cut to fit the powerheads.
I had never thought of that, Its a good Idea. I have an extra fluval sponge around here that I might have to try that with. thanks fishy

I did another 50% water change this morning
13th Test:
PH: 8.0 Ammonia: 0.5ppm Nitrite: 0ppm Nitrate:5.0ppm

So it seems to be getting better. Ive been adding top fin bacterial suppliment, Im sure it cant hurt... but does it really help? Is there any thing that I can do to get the bacterial colonies set up sooner?
 

FreshyFresh

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Keeping your filter running in a bucket or storage tote, with some tank or dechlorinated water would have kept the beneficial bacteria alive in the media. Same goes for the substrate. Not keeping those items in circulating water is what did it in. Luckily the fish you have can tolerate some ammonia and more toxic nitrite. Regardless, you should do fin-level water changes every other day or so until you see nothing but nitrates.
 

FreshyFresh

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whats a fin level water change? like all the way down 90% or so?
Taking the water level down to where the fish have just enough room to swim. Avoiding the 'one eye up' water change. LOL
 

sumthin fishy

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Keeping your filter running in a bucket or storage tote, with some tank or dechlorinated water would have kept the beneficial bacteria alive in the media.
Actually, this depends on how long it took to seal the tank. Without an ammonia source, the bacteria will die off over time (this is why you can't cycle a QT or hospital tank and just run it empty for long times and expect it to stay cycled). You would have had to either keep the fish in the same container as the filter, or dose ammonia. I don't know the time it takes to reseal a tank, or how long the bacteria takes to die off, but I would err on the side of caution anything over 24 hours would need some ammonia source. If you were able to seal it in a day and get things set back up, what FreshyFresh suggested would be fine.
 

FreshyFresh

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Actually, this depends on how long it took to seal the tank. Without an ammonia source, the bacteria will die off over time (this is why you can't cycle a QT or hospital tank and just run it empty for long times and expect it to stay cycled)...
I've never had a totally critter-less tank running (except for a fishless cycle), so I have no direct experience, but I've read that BB will survive, but lay dormant of sorts, as long as they're kept in flowing, oxygenated water. The max time frames I have no idea, but I'd think a week would be fine.
 

ffmurray

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Oct 6, 2014
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Ithaca NY
It took me two days to do the reseal did the prep work and sealing in a morning then a day and a half until it cured so i couldn't smell it at all, I put the fish in the day after that. I had never thought of the source of ammonia that they would need. I read about fish less cycling in the article in your signature, and that is how im setting up my next tank, I havent set on up in years but im thinking about getting these comets a larger tank and using my 55 for a tropical setup, but lots more research on ponds and the like first.
 

ffmurray

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Oct 6, 2014
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Ithaca NY
I did a water change yesterday, I registered .5ppm ammonia, I did not do one today after i tested the water at .25ppm ammonia, Im still registering no nitrites and minimal nitrates. Im going to keep testing, I added more top fin bacterial suppliment today as well. I also started bringing the pH down as well, over the course of they day i moved it from 8.2 to 7.8. Ive read that at a lower ph the ammonia is less toxic.
 
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