new heater or new circuit breaker?

Squawkbert · Dec 1, 2014

Yesterday, the 10A breaker that runs my 46 bow and ebtertainment center tripped 3 times at roughly 2.5-3 hour intervals. Each time, I unplugged/shut off what I considered to be the most likely culprit (the solenoid for my CO2, the Christmas village which has tons of little lights in it...). Nothing seemed to help, except for having lots of the stuff shut off.
Then shortly after I went to bed, dettermined to replace the circuit breaker today, it occurred to me that I've been running the same Visitherm Stealth (Italian one) since about 2006, so I went down stairs and chucked it. Today, I'll replace it - probably with an Aqueon Pro.

The tank has been well maintained with respect to temperature, but I suspect that a trickle of water was starting to find its way in, flashing when the heater came on, shorting the heater and tripping the breaker. In the time it took me to reset the breaker, enough water was forced out of the thing to reset the entire process. The *only* evidence I can offer to support this theory is that I did see some bubbled rising from the bottom of the tank on the heater side... not usually any bubbles over there!

Anyway, do any of you feel strongly that the heater was more likely the culprit than the old (~22 years) breaker (or do I have it backwards and now I need both a heater and a breaker)?

wesleydnunder · Dec 1, 2014

Breakers age, like everything else. They also have a finite number of trips. Yours may be weakening. You also may have a piece of equipment malfunctioning, and drawing more amperage that it should.

Breakers are rated in the amount of full-load current they can supply without tripping. They can supply this current for a short duration (less than 3 hours). A circuit that operates continuously for 3 hours or more is considered a continuous-duty circuit. In a continuous duty application, a given breaker can supply 80% of its rating without tripping (or should be able to). So for a 20 amp breaker, it can supply 16 amps on a continuous basis (3 hours or more).

Mark

Squawkbert · Dec 1, 2014

Though I know I was on borrowed time w/ the heater, I do suspect the breaker. It does not quite match the rest of them in the panel... sort of like the guy who installed the panel ran out of the ones he was using and had this one kicking around in the bottom of his truck bed or something. It looks slightly different from the rest.

ffmurray · Dec 1, 2014

A slightly different looking breaker is nothing to be concerned about. There are a couple of different manufactures who make breakers for each type of panel. What was said earlier is true about breakers. Most people don't think that they wear out but they do. Its a simple matter to replace it.

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dudley · Dec 1, 2014

It is possible that the previous homeowner may have put the incorrect circuit breaker in the panel but you haven't had any problems until you added more electrical devices to that circuit.

I would check the size of the wiring connected to the 10A breaker, for example: 14ga is usually a 15A breaker, 12ga = 20A breaker, etc. If you are uncomfortable or not familiar with this type of job, definitely contact an electrician. Removing the breaker panel to access the wiring and replacing the breaker is not recommended for those unfamiliar with potential dangers.

You don't want to replace the existing 10A breaker with a larger or smaller one if your wiring isn't correct.

sumthin fishy · Dec 1, 2014

If the heater is getting water into it it would definitely trip the breaker. Replace the heater asap. Once you do that, if you are competent and confident in your ability, you can always use an amp meter to check what the circuit is drawing at the panel when everything is turned on. As said, you don't want to put more than 8 amps on it. If your wire size is right, you could go with a bigger breaker if you needed it, but you would have to make sure the wire size is consistent through the entire circuit. Better to be safe and stick with the 10 and spread the load to another circuit somehow if you are drawing more than rated. For what it's worth, that finite number of trips a breaker can have is technically 1, and the reset is only there to restore power temporarily until the breaker can be replaced. I doubt however that anyone in history has followed that rule

ffmurray · Dec 1, 2014

For what it's worth, that finite number of trips a breaker can have is technically 1, and the reset is only there to restore power temporarily until the breaker can be replaced. I doubt however that anyone in history has followed that rule

well almost...

In an overload condition they are rated for 50 operations at 6x (600%) rated current. During UL 489 testing, the device must survive short-circuit testing and continue to provide future overload protection.

From Eaton (Cutler Hammer) literature: UL489, requires that a breaker must safely clear its maximum current, which is the short circuit current rating of the breaker, twice and still be functional. Schneider (Square-D) uses this same criteria And per IEEE 3.35 Circuit breaker useful life: it is prudent to replace any MCCB that has interrupted, at most, two faults at rated maximum current.

static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/Insulated%20Case%20Circuit%20Breakers/0613DB9902.pdf

Squawkbert · Dec 2, 2014

Bought an Aqueon Pro, got it and the rest of the stuff on that circuit going last night - no problems (so far)!

Now my largest complaint is how Petco online prices are totally not honored by the stores, even when they're HALF of what the store charges.
I didn't want to go several days w/o a heater, so I paid the ridiculous price less a small discount offered by the manager. Do they understand that I will NEVER but anything I don't need immediately when their online price is way lower than what I see in their stores? Guess not

Oh well.

Thanks lots for the input, I knew you guys would not let me down!

ffmurray · Dec 2, 2014

glad to hear its going.


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new heater or new circuit breaker?

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