water issues

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alphabetta

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Feb 24, 2004
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My water is really really hard, between 8 and 9, and the fish store guy just told me that I should bring this down. He said I should either buy filtered water or use this product by Seachem which is not PH-down, he said it was different, but they were out, i didnt catch the name of the stuff, all I know is that its a powder.

What do you guys think?? Should I mess with that? I dont even want to go the whole altering the ph route....not at all. Is water so hard really a problem? I've kept bettas in it for years, but bettas are really hardy and now that I'm getting into other fish, I want to make sure I'm doing what I need to do for them.

And another thing....when he tested the water from my tank he got a .5 ammonia reading, I tested with Aquarium Pharmaceuticals ammonia tests and got 0, both before and after he tested. AND I used 2 different test kits after he tested and got 0 on both.....wtf is the deal with that?? Sure they use really good tests, but I would think that a .5 would show up on mine too.

Ah man I wish I never took my water in there...I thought things were going so well. And this guy at the LFS is generally really knowledgeable, I think he knows his stuff, dealt with him before.

Oh...and he ALSO told me that I should not be doing a 25 percent water change each week, I should change it less often...what do you all think of that?? Its a 10 gal planted with currently 2 fish plan to add more. Whisper 5-15 gal filter.

So sorry so much here, but I was so happy that things were going well with this tank and now I'm all unsure....:confused:

Any input would be great.
 

Richer

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Aug 7, 2002
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It seems like this knowledgable person may not be as knowledgable as he think he is...

First and foremost, if done properly, there is generally no such thing as too large of a water change. The more frequent water changes are done, the more simliar your water will be to the source that you use (usually the tap water). This is good news, because if you accidently spill a container of food into your water, or something else nasty happens, you can easily do several large water changes, and your fish will not suffer. All of my tanks get at least one 40-50% water change once a week, more if I have the time. I just did two 40% water changes on my planted tank this afternoon.

Second of all, unless you have some pretty specialized fish in mind, don't bother buying any RO water from your fish store. In most cases, regular tap water will do just fine... with the exception of a few people here and there. My water is also quite hard, in the same range as yours, and I don't bother adding anything to adjust its pH... all of my fish thrive, whether they are soft water tetras, or hard water cichlids. Adding things to your water to adjust pH will only lead to an unstable pH, and that is much worse than a stable but "imperfect" one. IMHO, if your LFS' water is different from yours, take your time acclimilating your fish. While acclimilating your fish, add some of your tank water to the bag while its floating in your tank. Adjust the amount you add to the bag, and the amount of time you spend acclimilating according. I've seen some people go to the extent of drip acclimilating their fishes.

It is possible that your LFS' test kit is reading a false positive from your water. When chloramine is neutralized, it produces two ammonium ions... which can give certain test kits an ammonia reading. What kits did your LFS use?

HTH
-Richer
 

alphabetta

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Feb 24, 2004
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thank you Richer. That is what I went into the store thinking I knew: a high but stable ph was better than bouncing all around trying to achieve perfection, most fish will be able to acclimate to a high ph, and weekly water changes were a GOOD thing. Why do I always just assume that people know what they are talking about??????

Anyway, he didnt say RO water, he said just filtered water like you can get out of a culligan machine. Tell you what, just out of curiosity, I'm going to take a little test strip to the store next time, dribble a little water on it and see what it reads.

In general though I;m going to totally disregard everything he told me.

As for what test he used to test the ammonia, it was Jungle Quick Dips. He had to be asked 3x before he gave up that little nugget of info.

I read the box and the bottle of those test strips and I didnt see anywhere that it said exactly what it tested for. Do you know? Does it test for ammonia and ammonium?

thanks for your help :)
 

JSchmidt

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Jun 27, 1999
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Gotta agree with Richer... the LFS guy doesn't sound like he knows as much as he thinks he does. Test strips are generally OK for quick and dirty testing, but if they're old or haven't been saved correctly (i.e., if they got wet) they can be quite inaccurate.

The Jungle test strips for ammonia use the Nessler method. They should be fine for general testing, but if you use an ammonia-binding dechlorinator (e.g., Amquel, Prime or AmmoLock2) you will get false positive readings.

I would put more faith in your test results. I suspect his ammonia test is faulty.

You are wise to disregard what this LFS guy tells you. Rather, get some test kits (if you don't already have them) for KH, GH and nitrates. Those are the most useful tests. Let a sample of tap water age overnight in a bowl, then test for GH, KH, ph and ammonia. That will allow us to start giving you some specific recommendations.

HTH,
Jim
 

alphabetta

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Feb 24, 2004
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I have all those tests, I test pretty much daily since my tank has only been done cycling for about a month. I get good readings.

The dechlorinator I use is Aqua Plus, which doesnt bind ammonia. I specifically chose one that didnt so I could rely on my ammonia test results. He just probably had a bad kit.

My test results from the water in my tank are usually like this:
nitrites: 0
nitrates: never over 20 and lately falling a little lower every few days, maybe due to plants?
GH: 300
KH: 300
PH: 8 - 9

I too use Jungle quick dip for most of these tests, so they arent exact numbers.
 

Richer

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Later on if you do want to lower your pH, you can always try your hand at CO2 injection. If done properly, in many cases, CO2 injection can effectively lower pH, and it'll benefit your plants, even if they are growing in low light conditions.

Check the plant forum, there are several threads in there involving DIY CO2 injection.

-Richer
 

RTR

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Oct 5, 1998
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Although in the references and on the web boards folks refer to "soft water" fish - that is really GH under discussion, not KH or pH. The fish from blackwater and similar water do prefer, but do not require for maintenance, low TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) water and may well require low GH (calcium and magnesium ions) for breeding. The thing that tickles me about these discussions is the suggestion to use salt exchange media (as Culligan and others) to "soften" the water. That works great for laundry, but not so great for fish. Post salt-echange, the water is normally higher TDS than the pre-exchange water. Duh!

I have to agree that the LFS guy is in the situation of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. He knows just enough to confuse himself, and others.
 
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