Goldfish keep dying in the winter.

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I have about a 1000 gallon pond in my back yard. It used to have a bunch of goldfish and koi and natives in it 5 or 6 years ago until blue herons eradicated almost everything. Now there is not many goldfish or other fish as it is just too expensive to spend money on pricy fish that a bird is just going to eat when they can. Of the goldfish and few koi left in the pond I really started noticing several goldfish(but not koi) tended to die over the winter a few years ago, I would lose about 4-6 every year. I could not figure out why the lower populated pond was having so many goldfish die in winter, none really have signs of any disease, the ones that are dying I notice swim funny, go on their sides, and die. The pond had gravel in it and the pump was shut off when the temp is below 50 deg, there are some plants in it, it has a net over it in the winter so not many leaves on the bottom but every winter I seem to lose more and more goldfish.

Last year around fall a blue heron not only cleaned almost all the rest of the larger goldfish and koi out but knocked a large rock into the pond which sliced a big hole in the pond liner. After putting in a new pond liner I decided not to put gravel in it which I thought might be contributing to sludge/harboring bad bacteria. I put a bunch of larger feeder goldfish in the pond(not spending at the very least $6each on fish that is likely to get eaten before I make the pond blue heron safe) after isolating them for a week in a separate tub and treating them with a salt water mixture, of course a few feeders did not make it but the rest seemed healthy. They seemed to do fine the rest of the summer and fall but once again in the winter, particularly colder temps I am seeing and have to remove at least a dozen dead goldfish and 1 stoneroller so far. I lost 2 fancy goldfish only this year in our smaller front 100 gal pond but that is a first, the goldfish in that small pond never die where I lose 6-12 goldfish in the bigger pond every winter especially after it was stocked in lower numbers.

It can't be the gravel harboring dead spots/bad bacteria because I don't have any gravel now except for a few small trays on the bottom where I put plants. I vacuum the bottom of the pond in the fall before I put the net on, I don't feed them in the colder temps/winter. The ponds have been getting plenty of fresh rain. PH is around 7.5. Fish load is very small especially for the size of the pond, don't get it. Also don't get why I never lose koi, many say koi are harder and more delicate to take care of compared to goldfish but that is not my experience at all, I have never lost a koi from natural causes ever where I have lost dozens of goldfish in the same pond. My koi were never large.

Any ideas? Is it just normal to lose a half dozen to dozen smaller goldfish in the winter, our winters are not even that severe as we are in the South, temps in Dec/Jan/Fed are mostly in the upper 30's and 40's, pretty rare when it dips in the 20's for more then 2 or 3 days. Pond has only froze over once which only lasted a few days.
 

Rbishop

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Filtering system? Readings from a good liquid test kit?
 

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Filtering system? Readings from a good liquid test kit?
Filtration system is a large outside closed box sump system with 3 layers of filter mat and bio balls underneath. Pump is a Ecovort, think around 2000gph. Have 5 or 6 lily pad pots and parrot feather, lemon barcopa, water celery, some anarcaris, and duckweed but everything is dormant in the winter, pump does not run most of the winter as it is mostly below 50 deg. Ammonia and nitrate levels are well within low safe levels.
 

FreshyFresh

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...Ammonia and nitrate levels are well within low safe levels.
Just curious what low/safe means and what test kit you're using.
 

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Just curious what low/safe means and what test kit you're using.
I am using a aquarium pharma. test kit for Nitrite, Nitrate, Ammonia, PH.
Just did a test in the afternoon
Nitrite is 0 ppm
Nitrate is around 2 to 2.5, looks just a little darker then 0ppm but much lighter/yellower then 5.0
Ammonia is 0 ppm
PH is around 8.0 maybe 8.2 at most,
 

FreshyFresh

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Hmm.. Sounds all good parameter-wise. I'm wondering if a contaminate or parasite is getting to them?
 

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Hmm.. Sounds all good parameter-wise. I'm wondering if a contaminate or parasite is getting to them?
Doubt a contaminate because the pond water is pretty isolated from anything flowing in it, sides are high enough to stop any possibility of drainage into the pond and we only use natural fertilizer and did not even fertilize this fall or summer. I am thinking parasite but it would have to be a parasite that is able to live in very cold water during the winter, any ideas of what kind of parasite or treatments? I may add some more salt in the pond, have not done that since summer. Rosy reds seem to be swimming around fine, top water minnows seem to be swimming fine, pretty much just goldfish that end up dying with the odd stoneroller dying every other year. I have noticed some of the gold fish seem to have some string algae in/tangled in the gills, not sure if that means anything or they were dying and got caught in some string algae.
 

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I turned the pumps on, temps in the mid 50's. 4 more dead comet goldfish, couple live ones that are really sluggish barely moving like they are about to die while the rosy reds, gold barbs, top water minnows, stonerollers, koi seem healthy and swimming around. Don't get it. I may not put goldfish in the big pond anymore if they are so weak and most can't seem to survive a relatively mild winter. I still don't understand how the red head ornandas and veil tail goldfish, seem to be doing just fine in our small pond with the same water perimeters.
 

Rbishop

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Test dip strips or liquid? Personally, I would leave the filtration on year round...if nothing else so it can circulate the water and refresh stagnant spots where decay gases can build up...but that's just me.
 

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Test dip strips or liquid? Personally, I would leave the filtration on year round...if nothing else so it can circulate the water and refresh stagnant spots where decay gases can build up...but that's just me.
Test kit use liquid drops. Winter temperatures around where I am get in the 20's and 30's at times which I have read it stresses fish to have circulating water at cold temps under 50 deg but maybe it would not hurt to put the pump on once a week for a day or so in the winter. I have both ponds running now for 2 days. We have had a lot of rain in Dec/Jan. Most of the leaves are out of the pond, only gravel in the big pond are a few trays for plants, rest is bare, I think I like the look of a layer of gravel in the pond and will put gravel in it since the fish are not doing any better/maybe worse with a gravel less pond.
 
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