NITRATE help. Won't go down, fish are dying.......

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SugaKiss81

AC Members
Feb 10, 2015
5
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New Egypt, NJ
(Sorry for the lenght, trying to be as detailed as possible. So bare with me)

Hey everyone, newbie question here. This is my situation. I got a 29 gal. fish tank mid December 2014. We put two 20 lb. bags of CaribSea Arag-Alive Hawaiian Black Aquarium Gravel in the tank first. Then a day or so later we added 18 lbs. of Fuji live rock. We also bought:


  • 24”-34” LED Fluval Full Spectrum Marine & Reef lamp, 25 watt.
  • Aquatop GH150 Aquarium Submersible Glass Heater, 150 watt.
  • API Super Clean Power Filter, up to 50 gal.

And we borrowed a friend’s power head. We think it’s too big for our tank but planning on getting a replacement soon. We did constant testing of the water (PH/Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate/Salinity), every 3 days. They always came out with results of: 8.2 PH, 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 0 Nitrate, 1.022’ish salinity, and an average of 76-78 degrees in the tank.

We added a Black & White and an Orange & White Ocellaris Clownfish to the tank, about 2 wks. after we got the tank. I know too soon, but they were a gift given to us, and we couldn’t hold them at the pet store anymore.

Everything was fine. The water was never an issue the fish seemed fine, etc. Then about a wk. later we got some snails (4 Margareta, & 3 Cerith), and a peppermint shrimp to help with the algae build up on the live rock and the glass. The algae was a brownish color. A week later after adding the cleaners the algae on the live rock was gone, and the majority of the stuff on the glass was gone too. Here or there the Nitrate would be the only thing to change and go up to 5 or 10ppm and we would do a water change and then it would go back to 0. We also added a cleaner shrimp, because they are fun looking and about a week after that a Scooter Blenny (dragonet fish.

Up to this point we were having no issues. I would say about 3 wks ago from today we changed out the filter we have for a Fluval C4 Power Filter. We were told this is the better filter to have. We originally were going to start the tank with this filter but it took a while to deliver. So we used the API filter as a temporary one till the new one arrived. Again no issues yet. We also got 4 turbo snails and the next day 3 out for the 4 snails died.

About 2 wks. ago we added a Valentini Puffer fish, a Kanopia Polyp Rock, and 9lbs more of Fuji live rock to the tank. We also tested the water the next day and the nitrates were going up to 10ppm again, so we did a water change. The next day the puffer died, and did another water test and the nitrates increased, instead of decreased, for the first time with the water change. It is now more like 20ppm. So we did another water change, two days after the last water change, and I took apart the Fluval filter and cleaned out the parts, in the salt water that was in the tank, that we would of dumped from the water change.
Each time we did a water change we took about 6 gals. out and then added the same amount back in. We were using RO water the whole time and Instant Ocean sea salt. Just 4 days ago I did another water test and the nitrates are still up near 20ppm. So I bought a phosphate & calcium test and the results came out as .25 phosphate and it took 21 drops with the calcium test to make the water turn blue. I also purchased a Purigen pouch to put into the filter, which I was told should help remove the nitrates and phosphates.

Two days ago the blenny died. And I tested the water and now besides the nitrate still at 20ppm. The ammonia is now at .25ppm. So last night we did another water change of 6 gals. Today we tested the water again and the Ammonia is still at .25 and the Nitrate is still at 20ppm.

I am at a loss and don’t know what else to do to get the nitrates out. Besides mangrove plants, which we just don’t have the room for, to fit into the tank. I also don’t know what is causing the levels to go up after having no issues in the beginning. I try not to over feed the fish I feed them 2 times a day. In the a.m. I feed them the pellet foot and in the evening it’s the frozen mega marine mix (small amount of 1 cube). I tried agitating the top of the sand bed to get any food laying on top of the sand up and out the tank, through the filter. I used the fish tank scrubber to clean the walls and scrapped off the white dots that were growing on the walls of the tank. We were told that is normal, and they were small feather duster worms. We also noticed some red stuff growing onto the live rock. We also were told not a bad thing it’s called coralline algae. But we do have brown rock type growths appearing on the sand bed. They look like the color of rust they are hard and form into a ball like a rock and are all over the sand bed. That has been happening since we stated to get algae on the live rock and don’t seem to go away. Not sure what that is yet.

Oh and also green algae is starting to grow all over the rock now too. Just started to happen right around when the nitrate levels wouldn't drop. Give or take a week or so ago.


What can we do to get the nitrate and phosphate levels down that we haven’t done yet. I am afraid of more fish dying. Please help.
 
Last edited:

msouth468

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Nov 29, 2005
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To put it simply. Your tank is starting to cycle. You added the fish way to early. I don't know much about live rock. But if it wasn't cured, then that is part of your problem. If you can, get rid of what is left of your livestock and go back to testing every three days. Wait until the cycle is done.

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msouth468

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Nov 29, 2005
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Oh,and turn the lights off. That will help with the algae until the cycle is complete.

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SugaKiss81

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Feb 10, 2015
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New Egypt, NJ
Thanks... Yeah I realized I started a new cycle with the new rock after a lot of looking around. I didn't realize there was a difference in the live rock and that I needed the cured once I have fish, so that way I don't start up another cycle. Which has already happened. Luckily I am at the tail end again. The nitrate is up at 40ppm now, but no more ammonia.

As for the fish... I heard the 2 that died are two very difficult fish to have. We believe the blenny may have starved. Not enough of what he wanted to eat. :( As for the puffer we were told it may of had "ink" or something like that. Common in puffers. Supposdly they are very hearty fish to have but the first month of having them is a very delicate situation for them and they are hit or miss if you get a healthy one because they are prone to intestinal parasites due to their diet. Clearly I guess we lucked out and got a sick one. Well lesson learned. Thanks again.
 

msouth468

Fighting for the little guy
Nov 29, 2005
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couchpotatodx.proboards66.com
Do more water changes. 40ppm is crazy high and can kill what is left in your tank. Try a 50% change see what you get for numbwrs.

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Bgolfer88

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Feb 17, 2010
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Some people are going to disagree with me here but here is my humble opinion and I promise I have tested a countless number of tanks during trouble shooting.

IMHO the nitrates are high but I do not believe that is the (at least main) reason behind the deaths. I do feel also like you stocked too quick and agree with at least cutting back the light cycle and giving it time. And with the change of filters you took out all the biological filtration that had already built up in the filter and started anew in terms of what the filter itself was doing although the filter should re-establish itself faster than a brand new tank. And although algae may have began to occur due to nitrate levels I don't think that it would have been enough to adversely effect the fish.

Essentially like previously stated your cycle isn't done. I would be concerned WAY MORE with the ammonia levels, that will do it way before nitrates (I look at nitrates/phosphates more in reef tanks). And you didn't mention nitrite, is that 0 too? I've heard good things about purigen but personally prefer ChemiPure Elite (the elite version removes phosphates). Also if you are stirring up your sand bed to have your filter remove extra food you may be feeding too much.
And that 'red' coraline algae is probably red slime algae. Like the previous post says you may want to blackout your tank and nip that in the butt. I know margarita snails are known to eat it but I would try everything b/c that stuff sucks. You can also try increasing the flow in the areas that that red slime is building up in to discourage growth.
Unless your puffer had white spots on it then it didn't have ick. Probably ammonia or nitrite levels got it.
To speed up the cycling of your tank the only product I would use is Instant Ocean Biospira or similar product. If you want to neutralize your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate you could use SeaChem's Prime (although detoxified I believe the levels will still show up on test kits).
A mix of various hermit's will get rid of that brown color algae on your sand bed and take care of some of the green (I like emerald crabs for green hair algae) but only ad when tank ready :)
 

ThatNewFishGuy

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May 4, 2010
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IMHO the nitrates are high but I do not believe that is the (at least main) reason behind the deaths.
I agree with this. I think most fish are capable of surviving in even higher nitrates. It seems like OP's tank never cycled completely.

Did you ever see your ammonia spike up followed by reduction in ammonia and spike in nitrate? Only when you see that is your tank ready for livestock. Even then, I think you should to take it slow. With a new tank, I would imagine that it's relatively easy to bombard the system with ammonia to the point where it's not going to be reduced to nitrate fast enough. Give your tank's bacterial population a a chance to keep up and I think you'll have alot more success with keeping things alive.

It's hard to say what exactly killed the fish though. If your tank went through the initial cycle and then you added 9 lb's of uncured rock, that's probably what did them in.
 

SugaKiss81

AC Members
Feb 10, 2015
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New Egypt, NJ
Update

I agree with this. I think most fish are capable of surviving in even higher nitrates. It seems like OP's tank never cycled completely.

Did you ever see your ammonia spike up followed by reduction in ammonia and spike in nitrate? Only when you see that is your tank ready for livestock. Even then, I think you should to take it slow. With a new tank, I would imagine that it's relatively easy to bombard the system with ammonia to the point where it's not going to be reduced to nitrate fast enough. Give your tank's bacterial population a a chance to keep up and I think you'll have alot more success with keeping things alive.

It's hard to say what exactly killed the fish though. If your tank went through the initial cycle and then you added 9 lb's of uncured rock, that's probably what did them in.

Before adding anything else into the tank besides the 2 clown fish and the rock and sand, tested the water every other day. Nitrites and Ammonia never went above 0. The PH never changed from 8.2, and the nitrate would sometimes maybe go to 10.... but after a water change it was back at 0. So I figured it must of cycled.

The adding of the new rock recently I think was the main issue. I didn't realized the difference in live rock, and didn't realized it would start up a new cycle.

Currently The tank is at: 8.2 PH, 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite but the Nitrate is still at 40. It was at 10 2 days ago but for whatever reason it's up again.

I tried talking to people at Petco about what I should do. They suggested maybe my rock was too close and not enough water flow to move around. So I moved the rock around about a week ago. Cont. use a small dropper type thing to pump air between the rock to keep the junk moving. The fish like the "caves" more so that seems cool. We added some bumble bee snails for the algae. Also was told it might be crap in the sand, it's brown rock type stuff on the sand bed, which I was told, was probably [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]diatoms. They supposedly, according to the Petco people, can increase your nitrates. So they suggested to get a sand sifting sea star. Like mentioned before I have [/FONT]40 lbs of the Hawaiian Black sand in a 29 gal tank. I, by reading some other threads, think I was lied to and that the sand sifter doesn't eat diatoms and since my tank is so young still will probably starve because I don't have enough food for it to eat.

[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]I feel like I keep making the wrong mistakes and being completely new to salt water tanks, I rely on the pet stores advise. After all these issues I am starting to feel they just want to sell me stuff and not help. I don't want anything else to die but not sure what to do.[/FONT][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica] Been doing water changes, about 4 gallons of water out and new stuff in every week. [/FONT]What else is there left to do to get nitrate down? [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]I was told by the same Petco people, 40 Nitrate is not that bad for a tank. No ideal but not bad... So confused. Thanks for all your time and help. [/FONT]
 

SugaKiss81

AC Members
Feb 10, 2015
5
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New Egypt, NJ
Oh and I have cut back to 7 hrs. with the (white) light on. At night it's the (blue) light, approx. 8hrs., and the other 9 hrs. it's completely off, no light at all.
 
Last edited:

SugaKiss81

AC Members
Feb 10, 2015
5
0
0
New Egypt, NJ
I agree with this. I think most fish are capable of surviving in even higher nitrates. It seems like OP's tank never cycled completely.

Did you ever see your ammonia spike up followed by reduction in ammonia and spike in nitrate? Only when you see that is your tank ready for livestock. Even then, I think you should to take it slow. With a new tank, I would imagine that it's relatively easy to bombard the system with ammonia to the point where it's not going to be reduced to nitrate fast enough. Give your tank's bacterial population a a chance to keep up and I think you'll have alot more success with keeping things alive.

It's hard to say what exactly killed the fish though. If your tank went through the initial cycle and then you added 9 lb's of uncured rock, that's probably what did them in.
Yes I agree the rock was my mistake I think. I didn't realize the difference in the live rocks and I think I just re started a new cycle. As for the 2 fish that did die. I think It was a newbie error of not knowing enough. The blenny I hear is very difficult to keep. They like to feed on pods, and my tank is not old enough to have enough to feed it's hunger. As for the puffer I think it may of had ick. It had a little white star on it's back, when we bought it. I thought it was like a birth mark, but now looking into it more, I was told that is a tell tale sign of ick. So basically I bought a sick fish.

Mad mostly because I put trust in the Store owners and I tell them all about what is in my tank, how long I have had it etc. and they don't tell me that it's an issue. Or that a specific fish maybe too difficult. Is no one honest anymore. SMH..... Again thanks for the info.
 
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