About six weeks ago, after a veeeery long search I finally found two Mikrogeophagus ramirezi in a pet store. They both had e few specks of Ich on them but since I have successfully dealt with Ich in the past, I didn't mind getting them. I immediately treated the tank with a well known copper cure, and even then the first couple of days Ich spread to other tank mates but after about a week it was completely gone. At about the same time my male Kribensis and swordtail started to scratch against rocks: they have no visible parasites on them (I looked with a magnifying glass!). After a 30% water change I medicated with Clout, they still flicked against rocks and the Krib went on a hunger strike. Two days later, after another water change I medicated with Clout again, but to no avail. Is it possible that they have Ich or other parasites or flukes IN the gills since I cannot see anything on them? Any opinion, advice is much appreciated. :help:
Flicking, scratching against rocks
- Thread starter Dr. Aqua
- Start date
I'm sure that is a possibility. If the medication you're using isn't working, I would try some other anti-bacterial medication. If those don't work, it's probably a parasite. Good luck!
Your fish might have a bladder disease go to ur LFS and see what they have for tht, not really harmful but should be dealt with.
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Never heard that bladder disease makes them scratch against rocks and pebbles. Usual symptoms would be erratic swimming, impossibility to maintain buoyancy / loss of equilibrium. In any case my affected fish are swimming fine, no loss of colour and the Krib is chasing the tank mates as usual. Thank you for the reply.
Progress report:
Last night, after another change of water, I medicated the tank with a combination of Praziquantel and Metronidazole. About 16 hours later the swordfish stopped flicking against the rocks but the Krib is still doing it occasionally and ate a little frozen Mysis shrimp. Fingers crossed...
Last night, after another change of water, I medicated the tank with a combination of Praziquantel and Metronidazole. About 16 hours later the swordfish stopped flicking against the rocks but the Krib is still doing it occasionally and ate a little frozen Mysis shrimp. Fingers crossed...
The main problem is putting new fish, suspected of having ich, into your healthy, established tank?!?! You should have put the new fish into something temporary (quarantine tank) to treat them 'till ich free, then put them into your tank. Most would recommend heat and salt over any ich "treatment".
You're absolutely right in suggesting a quarantine tank, but most of us don't have it (place lacking), second, I was so happy to find the fish I was looking for (couple of years now) that I didn't mind the Ich (not "suspected", I could actually see them on the fish in the store) - it's easily eradicated with the proper medication. 90% percent of the time I am able to treat visible diseases, but in this case there is nothing visible on the Krib and it is scratching against the pebbles on the bottom. Thank you for your concern and reply. Will keep you guys posted!
Fish flick from other irritations beside ich (water issues etc). IME ich tx takes longer than a week, I do 2 weeks AFTER all visible signs are gone, many tx only kill the free swimming stage. I haven't used copper in many years & don't remember if it can kill in all 3 stages of the ich lifecycle (basically: on fish, in substrate, free swimming; then on fish again; yes it can hide in the gills). It is also temp dependent, I recently did a dye tx at "room temp" & after 3 weeks!, ich came back. That's why it's often recommended to raise the tank temp, to speed the lifecycle. Then I did a salt tx for 5 or 6 weeks & I'm still gradually reducing the salt over many water changes (almost there at last!). This lack of complete ich eradication is why some people claim it's in the tank long term ("always possible"), it does not magically appear, it's a parasite, not like alga...
A word of warning, copper can make a tank forever uninhabitable for inverts, they're much more sensitive than most fish.
A word of warning, copper can make a tank forever uninhabitable for inverts, they're much more sensitive than most fish.
Thank you fishorama.
Whatever known treatment one uses may only kill Ich in their free-swimming stage because the cysts attach themselves to the underside of the outer skin, thus the cure cannot reach them. In my opinion salt is not a panacea for all parasitic diseases: there are a variety of very effective cures out there, copper sulfate is one of them. It stays in the tank for about a month (thus makes sure Ich is totally gone) and must be replenished with every water change for it to do its job. Salt kills plants, not every fish can tolerate salt and higher temperatures and thus it exacerbates the situation. A word of caution though: slightest overdose of copper sulfate is immediately fatal for all fishes; even big water changes will not remedy an overdose. Carbon won't remove it.
Your comment "yes it can hide in the gills" is very valuable to me - you confirmed my suspicions. Thank you again.
Whatever known treatment one uses may only kill Ich in their free-swimming stage because the cysts attach themselves to the underside of the outer skin, thus the cure cannot reach them. In my opinion salt is not a panacea for all parasitic diseases: there are a variety of very effective cures out there, copper sulfate is one of them. It stays in the tank for about a month (thus makes sure Ich is totally gone) and must be replenished with every water change for it to do its job. Salt kills plants, not every fish can tolerate salt and higher temperatures and thus it exacerbates the situation. A word of caution though: slightest overdose of copper sulfate is immediately fatal for all fishes; even big water changes will not remedy an overdose. Carbon won't remove it.
Your comment "yes it can hide in the gills" is very valuable to me - you confirmed my suspicions. Thank you again.
