I don't know what I'm doing wrong

Danec · Mar 9, 2015

I have a 40 gallon tank that I set up about 4 months ago, and in that time I have lost a tremendous amount of fish. some of the losses are definitely my fault as I learned about the nitrogen cycle, but I thought I had my tank pretty well established (finally) I have 5 bloodfin tetras, and 2 swordtails . I bought 6 neon tetras on friday to add to the tank. The next night 2 of them were dead, then the next morning another one. the following day 2 more. there is one left but I sort of doubt he is going to make it. I've read that neon tetras are sort of temperamental and difficult to adjust to a new tank, but what's worrying me is one of my swordtails is now acting strange. still alive, but floating on the bottom of the tank, sort of resting on the substrate.

I've been doing weekly water changes of about 30% I was using stress coat, but recently switched to seachem prime as a dechlorinator. I also began using flourish excel, to get my plants going, which worked great, but I've scaled back a little as maybe that's affecting my fish. consequently, the algae has returned in a big way.

I just purchased a liquid test kit last week, (the API master kit) and I've never read anything but all zeroes. ammonia, nitrite, nitrate (which I find strange, I shook the **** of it last time, and still got zero) my pH was a little high, at 8, maybe that's my problem, but everything I've read says that using chemicals to adjust your pH causes more problems than it helps.

I feel like my tank is falling apart. please help! I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, or just not doing something I should be. But I have no idea what. I really love my tank, and I feel bad just killing all kinds of fish.

petluvr · Mar 9, 2015

Glad that you asked for advice

The 0 trate reading is a bit odd but can be explained by plants, do you have plants in your tank? I would think the loss of the neons is just like you said they are not easily kept, I have never had luck with them. Are they displaying unusual behaviors before they die?

Danec · Mar 9, 2015

I do have live plants, I have like 4 little bunches of different things, and an amazon sword. the only neon I actually saw die started swimming around in circles and flipping upside down before he died. I had 5 sword tails that all died (it was too many to add at once, and I removed my fake plants and planted my real plants 2 days after I got them, it was my fault I think) but they would hide for a day, then float near the top for a day, then hang out by the bottom for a day, then I'd find them dead. they did it one by one, every couple days another one would go. one lived for a little while, (about a month) but he seemed like he was more sluggish and lazy than at first. When I bought the 2 swordtails I have now, they really went after him, and he died a few days later. (who I bought for him to have some females, although I am not so sure both or them are females. they dont' have swords, but I've learned they sometimes grow them later)

FreshyFresh · Mar 9, 2015

Dane, welcome!

Now that you've got the master test kit, you won't be flying so blindly. Like we say over and over, the most common mistake is not following the nitrate test kit instructions TO A "T". Shake the living heck out of bottle #2 and then shake the heck out of the completed test tube for at least one minute, let the tube set 5min, then read. You'll typically see orange on a healthy, established tank. Red = too much nitrate.

What type of filtration do you have on this 40g? What type of bio media is in this filter? That's where the majority of your beneficial bacteria will grow. That's why it's a good idea to have more than one filter on a tank. Back-up beneficial bacteria source.

It's sounds like you're attempting a fish-in cycle. You can do it this way, but you need your master test kit and it takes more than a 30% once a week water change.

wesleydnunder · Mar 9, 2015

1. Stop buying fish until you get your tank cleared of whatever is infecting the fish. I suspect it still has ich.

2. Where are you buying your fish? Often the problem with weak fish is the store (and its fishkeeping practices) where you buy them.

3. Quarantine new arrivals for 30 days before introducing them into your show tank. That way you can treat newcomers before they infect the whole tank. If, during the 30-day quarantine period, your new fish show signs of illness, treat until the illness is gone and reset the 30 day q clock.

The "0" nitrate reading is puzzling to me as well. In a fully cycled tank, there should be some nitrate reading. I'm assuming when you shook the **** out of the nitrate test that you shook the reagent bottle for the required time before putting it in the test tube, then shook the test tube for the required amount of time before comparing the color to the chart.

Mark

Danec · Mar 9, 2015

Thanks! I appreciate the quick replies!

I thought I shook it well enough, but I will try again and go even more.

I have an aquaclear 70 HOB filter. it's got the sponge filter and biomax little white things that came with it, and I replaced the carbon with a bag of purigen about 3 weeks ago.

I did do a fish in cycle, I put some quick start in and waited about 2 or 3 weeks before added fish. I was under the impression that my cycle was complete. maybe I should add an additional filter. I can certainly try that.

if I'm not reading any ammonia or nitrite (which I'm not) are additional water changes going to help? I can start doing a second one weekly, and this brings up another question I have, I've been doing water changes using the python gravel vacuum thing, so I pull water out, then add prime to the water, then put new water back in (after matching the temperature to within a half degree) is that the correct procedure?

Danec · Mar 9, 2015

Mark,

1. I thought I had cleared it, but apparently not. how long should I wait until I can be confident it's cleared? I don't think it's ick, none of my fish have any white spots, but maybe I'm just not seeing them. I defer to you experience, as I have little.

2. I was going to one LFS, but switched to another one as I had so many deaths from that store. the 2 swordtails, and the 6 (now 1) neon tetras are from the new store.

3. I've read I should be doing this, but I don't have a second tank. I obviously could purchase one, what do I need for a quarantine tank? I probably wouldn't need one nearly as large, but other than that is it just a regular tank? if I leave the quarantine tank empty for a period of time, wouldn't all the beneficial bacteria die out causing that tank to cycle every time I added fish? this is likely something I need to do, I'm just wondering if there are some additional steps I should be taking.

as far as the nitrate, yeah I really shook both bottles (especially #2) and the tube as well. I will try again tonight.

FreshyFresh · Mar 9, 2015

Sounds great on filtration. For my AC70's I run the stock sponge in the bottom. The bio media bag in the middle, then I run two AC30 sponges side/side on the top. I don't bother with carbon or other chemical media like purigen. Great filters IMO.

For your initial cycling, I'm not sure how the instructions read on the bottle of quick start, but adding bacteria without adding an ammonia source is pointless IMO.

If you're not seeing ammonia or nitrite, you don't have to do water changes, but I'd still keep up on a weekly water change of some volume. You could do daily 90% WCs and it wont effect your nitrogen cycle. With just a few fish in your 40g, it will take weeks to complete the cycle and see nothing but nitrates.

Is there any chance at you getting some well seeded filtration media from someone else? If you were closer to me, I'd give you the media out of one of my AC70's and you'd be off and running and could stock as you pleased.

In regards to your neon tetras, they can be an issue. They tend to be diseased and/or stressed so badly from the store, they die once you get them home. Neons also do better in cooler water, like ~68-72F. A better option is Cardinal Tetras if you can find them. They do better in warmer temps and tend to be a hardier fish.

Danec · Mar 9, 2015

I'll see if I can get some bio filter media from someone. I think my aunt still has her tank. that's a great idea.

I did actually see some cardinals at the store, but they didn't look very healthy (there was a dead one, and another had no tail fin) so I didn't want to get those. but I think I'm done with neons. they're very cool looking fish, but it sounds like they just can't hold up. Am I better off just going to petco/smart?

so you guys are thinking that my tank isn't fully cycled and I need to wait longer before adding any new fish?

FreshyFresh · Mar 9, 2015

Yes, if you've got fish in the tank and are showing no nitrates, chances are, you don't have a sufficient nitrogen cycle going on. You risk building up ammonia and/or nitrites (very toxic to fish) in this situation until enough beneficial bacteria build-up to process ammonia into nitrates.

I'd keep 4 fish or so in your 40g, feed very lightly, monitor water params daily, do water changes as needed and wait it out.


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