move established tank to new tank

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Duckie

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Mar 14, 2015
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I am having a 75 gallon FW tank that is established and running for a few years. Time to upgrade, so I ordered a new 180 gallon. The 75g tank will eventually be converted to SW (something new to me, still need to figure out the needed equipment). How do I get the whole 75 system moved over to the new tank the easiest and fastest way? The problem is since we are planning to convert the old tank to SW, all the equipment from the old tank is moving to the new tank. Current tank has UG filters with a MJ900 powerhead on each of the two plates. There is also a heater in it and two bubble strips (mostly for looks, but also for oxygen). All I need to get additionally is another two plates for UG filter and two new powerheads for the 180, well and a little bit more gravel.

My plan of action for the move is this:

  1. setup stand and tank for new 180g (same room, different wall)
  2. add about 50% fresh water, put two new UG plates and powerheads in tank
  3. take half the water out of 75g and dump into 180g
  4. catch smaller fish and put in a bucket (I am thinking they will be hard to see/catch once gravel is all stirred up)
  5. move gravel to one side, remove old UG filter plate, put in new tank
  6. move gravel to other side, move other plate to new tank, move powerheads
  7. move as much gravel as possible to put in new tank, then add new gravel on top
  8. dump bucket with small fish in new tank
  9. catch and move big fish to new tank
  10. move rest of the water over (or not????)
  11. fill tank up, start powerheads

Anything there that I am missing or that won't work the way I am thinking? I am not sure if or how much water I should save from the old tank - it might be easier on the fish if they have as much as possible of their old water. With the new tank size they will have a 60 % water change anyway if all of the 75g are saved, so maybe a 100% water change wouldn't be any worse? Should I rinse the old gravel a little before putting in new tank? I am thinking not to rinse it out as to not remove any of its inhabitants (which is in my case my filter media).

Not sure if it will make much difference, but the current fish in the 75g and the exact same that will be in the 180g:

  • 2 bala sharks (about 8-9 inches)
  • 2 iridescent sharks (about 6-7 inches)
  • 3 baby iridescent sharks (about 2 inches) (newly added)
  • 8 clown loaches (5 big, 3 small(newly added))
  • 2 chinese algea eaters
  • 1 little catfish (black with dark spots, not sure which)
  • 2 bottom feeders
  • 4 tetras (newly added)

The newly added ones were put in the tank just last week in preparation for the new tank. They are all doing great. The clown loaches mixed with the existing ones, sometimes (but seldom) all 8 school together or any other combination most of the time. The baby shark got adopted by the two big ones - they are protective over them, sometimes making sure the babys stick together as one of them used to wander off the first few days (not any more). The tetras always stick together and somehow always hang around the baby iridescents as a group of 7. Maybe a little bit overstocked (even for the 180), but there is no signs of any aggressive behavior from any of them.

Any advice on an easy move is appreciated. :)
 

Rbishop

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The plan will work. However, I would do a severe deep clean (gravel vac) of your existing gravel to remove as much mulm and build up as you can. Even if takes three or four deep WCs to do it over several days. This should help minimize the cloudiness of the water when you start catching fish and movement of the plates. I would suggest switching to RUGF on the switch over also. Maybe even switching to canister driven RUGF for even better mechanical filtration. I wouldn't rush moving stuff to the new tank. You just added new fish, and it appears without QT. It could take some time before you are positive you didn't bring in new illness with them. Having to treat a 180 gallon tank with meds can be expensive.
 

Duckie

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The plan will work. However, I would do a severe deep clean (gravel vac) of your existing gravel to remove as much mulm and build up as you can. Even if takes three or four deep WCs to do it over several days. This should help minimize the cloudiness of the water when you start catching fish and movement of the plates. I would suggest switching to RUGF on the switch over also. Maybe even switching to canister driven RUGF for even better mechanical filtration. I wouldn't rush moving stuff to the new tank. You just added new fish, and it appears without QT. It could take some time before you are positive you didn't bring in new illness with them. Having to treat a 180 gallon tank with meds can be expensive.
Ah, thank you. What exactly are the benefits of reversing the flow in a RUGF? And does a canister driven RUGF mean that there would not be any water changes left to do? Yes, you are correct, the new fish arrivals were all put in the tank at once without QT. From the store I got them from I never had a problem with sick fish.

I do not have to rush to the new tank as soon as it arrives - I just would like to do the move itself pretty quickly so I don't have to get extra plates for the UGF (or RUGF). Ever since I switched to UGF about 10 years ago with the 75g (we had a 29g before with a silly hang on back filter), the water is always so nice and clear looking. It never looked like that with the hang on back filter. Is a canister filter (by itself) capable of doing the same for clear looking water as a UGF? I am a little leery to all of a sudden completely change my filter system that has been working great for me for so long. Any other option to supplement a (R)UGF other than canister? I have been wanting to build a small sump with a wet/dry trickle filter - that was before I found out that I can keep using a UGF. Apparently there is no such thing as a 24 inch wide plate - and then looking at my tank it dawned on me that, yes there is. They are already sitting in my own tank - 24 inch long by 18 inch wide. Four of them will cover the 6x2 feet of the 180 if flipped around sideways.

Still got some time, the tank is on backorder. It will be complicated enough to set it all up as this is going to be my first big tank.

There is still time to rethink everything - set the new tank up complete with its own filtration and let it cycle without jumpstarting anything while keeping the 75 running and very slowly move the fish over. It is a big enough investment that a little bit more is not going to hurt if it means a better healthy home for the fish.

On a sad note, one of the new iridescent shark did not make it. He was just fine at feeding time this morning, and was stuck/wedged under a pvc pipe just now. :(
 

henningc

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The plan sounds doable but timelines are everything I'd set the new tank up with water, a little of the old gravel and décor and run it for at least a week checking the levels. Keep in mind, no matter what you do with old water or the UG plates there will be a bit of a sock factor. I'd get the 180 stabilized before doing any major moving of UG plates and certainly before fish go in.

Personally, I'd have gotten two 120gal rated sponge filters and riggd them to your air source for 4-6 weeks in advance.
 
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Rbishop

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Ah, thank you. What exactly are the benefits of reversing the flow in a RUGF? And does a canister driven RUGF mean that there would not be any water changes left to do? Yes, you are correct, the new fish arrivals were all put in the tank at once without QT. From the store I got them from I never had a problem with sick fish.

I do not have to rush to the new tank as soon as it arrives - I just would like to do the move itself pretty quickly so I don't have to get extra plates for the UGF (or RUGF). Ever since I switched to UGF about 10 years ago with the 75g (we had a 29g before with a silly hang on back filter), the water is always so nice and clear looking. It never looked like that with the hang on back filter. Is a canister filter (by itself) capable of doing the same for clear looking water as a UGF? I am a little leery to all of a sudden completely change my filter system that has been working great for me for so long. Any other option to supplement a (R)UGF other than canister? I have been wanting to build a small sump with a wet/dry trickle filter - that was before I found out that I can keep using a UGF. Apparently there is no such thing as a 24 inch wide plate - and then looking at my tank it dawned on me that, yes there is. They are already sitting in my own tank - 24 inch long by 18 inch wide. Four of them will cover the 6x2 feet of the 180 if flipped around sideways.

Still got some time, the tank is on backorder. It will be complicated enough to set it all up as this is going to be my first big tank.

There is still time to rethink everything - set the new tank up complete with its own filtration and let it cycle without jumpstarting anything while keeping the 75 running and very slowly move the fish over. It is a big enough investment that a little bit more is not going to hurt if it means a better healthy home for the fish.

On a sad note, one of the new iridescent shark did not make it. He was just fine at feeding time this morning, and was stuck/wedged under a pvc pipe just now. :(
Reversing the flow on the UGF will help minimize how much mulm builds up under the plates and in the gravel. It will not mean you get to stop or reduce water changes. Water changes replenish trace elements, maintain buffering capability of the water and stabilize the tank. By driving the plates with a canister, you get higher flow than most power heads will do as in a UGF mode, and precludes the need for unsightly power head suction filters if using them to drive the RUFG. The media in the canister will allow more and variable filtration than just a sponge on the power heads.

The canister filters can do the same as a RUFG, but you lose the gravel bed as a major source of area for beneficial bacteria to grow...besides surface contact on items in the tank, a large majority of the BB would be in the filter media.

Many folks say they never had a problem with not QT'ing fish...then that one day comes where they do and the addition of new fish kill off existing ones, then they learn the hard way to do so in the future.
 

Duckie

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Mar 14, 2015
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Reversing the flow on the UGF will help minimize how much mulm builds up under the plates and in the gravel. It will not mean you get to stop or reduce water changes. Water changes replenish trace elements, maintain buffering capability of the water and stabilize the tank. By driving the plates with a canister, you get higher flow than most power heads will do as in a UGF mode, and precludes the need for unsightly power head suction filters if using them to drive the RUFG. The media in the canister will allow more and variable filtration than just a sponge on the power heads.
Oh, now I understand what you mean by "driven by canister" - you literally mean hooking up one hose of the canister filter directly to the stand pipe / filter plate hole and using it instead of a powerhead. How would I establish current in the tank itself if going the RUGF driven by canister - would I need a powerhead for circulation inside the tank? Do you suggest using multiple small canisters (one per plate) instead of splitting the return on a bigger canister?

The canister filters can do the same as a RUFG, but you lose the gravel bed as a major source of area for beneficial bacteria to grow...besides surface contact on items in the tank, a large majority of the BB would be in the filter media.
Confused. If I use the canister that will push cleaned water down the pipes of the RUGF then there should not be any need for additional bacteria to grow in the gravel. Or does it simply balance itself out and take some load off the canister media and push half dirty water through the gravel to be cleaned some more.

Many folks say they never had a problem with not QT'ing fish...then that one day comes where they do and the addition of new fish kill off existing ones, then they learn the hard way to do so in the future.
Point. Will probably get a small tank for the kitchen with some cheapish fish in it that won't hurt much if I loose them due to a sick fish (a beta and some feeder guppies or mollies maybe) that can be used as a QT for the big one. For me having a QT that sits empty most of the time unless new fish arrive would be a waste of real estate and an eye sore (no basement here to hide it out of sight). The last time prior to this time was over a year ago that we added any fish.

That is why I am a newbie and try to avoid the mistakes that did not happen to me yet, but eventually will happen with time. Especially with trying a new experiment with Saltwater sometime soon. One thing I do know is that it will definitely not be a FO tank (sounds awefully complicated to maintain). Maybe a FOWLR or a reef without hard corals (only softies).
 

Rbishop

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See below...

Oh, now I understand what you mean by "driven by canister" - you literally mean hooking up one hose of the canister filter directly to the stand pipe / filter plate hole and using it instead of a powerhead. How would I establish current in the tank itself if going the RUGF driven by canister - would I need a powerhead for circulation inside the tank? Do you suggest using multiple small canisters (one per plate) instead of splitting the return on a bigger canister?

The flow would be down the stand pipes, under the plates and up through all the gravel giving your circulation. The canister suctions would take water out of the tank, through its media then back to the standpipes.


Confused. If I use the canister that will push cleaned water down the pipes of the RUGF then there should not be any need for additional bacteria to grow in the gravel. Or does it simply balance itself out and take some load off the canister media and push half dirty water through the gravel to be cleaned some more.

The BB will grow in the gravel and the canister media.


Point. Will probably get a small tank for the kitchen with some cheapish fish in it that won't hurt much if I loose them due to a sick fish (a beta and some feeder guppies or mollies maybe) that can be used as a QT for the big one. For me having a QT that sits empty most of the time unless new fish arrive would be a waste of real estate and an eye sore (no basement here to hide it out of sight). The last time prior to this time was over a year ago that we added any fish.

You can establish a QT when needed by using media from a canister put in an HOB filter.

That is why I am a newbie and try to avoid the mistakes that did not happen to me yet, but eventually will happen with time. Especially with trying a new experiment with Saltwater sometime soon. One thing I do know is that it will definitely not be a FO tank (sounds awefully complicated to maintain). Maybe a FOWLR or a reef without hard corals (only softies).
 

Duckie

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Mar 14, 2015
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The plan sounds doable but timelines are everything I'd set the new tank up with water, a little of the old gravel and décor and run it for at least a week checking the levels. Keep in mind, no matter what you do with old water or the UG plates there will be a bit of a sock factor. I'd get the 180 stabilized before doing any major moving of UG plates and certainly before fish go in.

Personally, I'd have gotten two 120gal rated sponge filters and riggd them to your air source for 4-6 weeks in advance.
Thank you. I will take your advice into consideration and leave the new tank sit for a bit. By "sock factor" you mean that no matter what I do, that the new environment will always be stressful? I have seen sponge filters in tanks in fish stores and I am not too thrilled about the huge size they take up in the tank.

See below...
Thank you again, very helpful. I will search for more information (and other opinions from users that use them) about the canister driven RUGF. It sounds very interesting to have the tank cluttered up less by moving the powerheads outside of the tank. Would you also suggest to use canisters to drive regular flow UGF?
 

Rbishop

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You can but that wouldn't necessarily minimize build up in the gravel.
 

GraphicGr8s

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I use to have UG in every tank I had back in the 80s. For some reason I just don't use them anymore. Still have a bunch hanging around even the one I had in a 90.

If this were mine I would first remove all the fish and get them into buckets. Get the gravel into buckets and then put the plates in the 180. In the center. I'd leave the ends with just gravel so I could heavily plant the sides and give the fish plenty of swimming room in the middle. Anyhow, the old gravel goes over the plates. New gravel over the glass. Add new, conditioned water a little less than half way and let the water clear up a little. Add all the water I could save from the 75. Add the fish/water back into the tank. Top off with new water. Your BB is in the gravel not the water. At least there isn't much in the water.

One thing I've never done with a QT is worry about cycling. It is after all a quarantine tank and realistically you should be changing water in it. If you are then ammonia has no chance to build up. Personally I don't "technically" quarantine fish. However most of the ones I come home with from our society club auction are going into new tanks anyhow. I get home and add water to a tank add fish. Done. Some of those tanks eventually get a filter. Thing is my tanks have a low bioload. Your 180 with the fish from the 75 will also have a low bioload. You should have little to no cycle. BTW if you decide to get a canister run it for a week or two on the 75 to seed it.
 
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