Need help with Nemo tank.

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ScottoMacD

Charlie and Amanda's Daddy
Dec 21, 2001
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Vaudreuil-Dorion, Quebec, Canada
Hello all.

I need some help here. After 20 some odd years in freshwater I never thought that any aquarium could make me think that I am in over my head.

For Charlie's 2nd birthday last week I set up a 20 gallon Nemo tank for him in his room. I cheated the cycle by using stuff from work (Big Al's) so as to be able to add fish asap.

Right now as of this morning (15-07-04) here are the specs for the tank:

20 gallon tank
Salinity is at 23ppm
Ammonia 0ppm
nitrite 0ppm
nitrate 10ppm
Ph 7.8 to 8.0 depending on the day
82 degrees

Crushed coral base (1 inch thick) with some live sand (just a little, 1 pound maybe 2)
2 pieces of live rock (3 pounds worth)
1 small piece dead coral
1 medium clam shell

Running on a Fluval 402 with Eheim media and some crushed coral
150 watt Rena excel heater

Current inhabitants are
2 ocellaris clowns
2 green chromis
5 blue legged hermit crabs

The problem is that the fish are up at the top gasping. With my limited salty knowledge I did what a freshwater person would do. I changed 8 gallons of water last night. Things seem better until this morning again up to the top.

I can't figure out what the problem is with the Ph. Which is what I suspect is the main problem here. Being too low that is. When I add the salt to the bucket the ph goes to 8.3. After it is in the tank though it always drops back down to 7.8 to 8.0 again.

I check the carbonite hardness and general hardness of the tap water. My buffering capacity is fine.

What is making the ph in the tank drop? Is this the cause of the gasping fish. I want to fix this problem but honestly I HATE saltwater. I have never had any intrest in owning a salty tank, but he is my son and well any parent will tell you.

I wanted to put some nice Rams or a Discus in his room and was convinced by others to go nemo.

I am truly frustrated and am to the point of chucking the whole thing and going back to my cichlid idea.

Can anybody please help me out here?
 

Guy W

AC Members
Apr 8, 2002
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I don't think that even a PH of 7.8 would make a fish go to the surface gasping.

I noticed you said your using tap water? Are you conditioning the water in anyway to remove chlorine? I'm sure you are since you've been into freshwater so long.

What he's doing sounds like what a fish would do when the ammonia is to high? Are you test kits made for a high pH system (i.e. they are not test kits for fresh water)? I've seen strange readings come out with kits that were freshwater used on saltwater.

I don't have to many other ideas, I'm sure your doing the right things here just kicking a few ideas at you.

Guy
 

mogurnda

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Apr 29, 2003
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It is a steep learning curve, isn't it?

1. The parameters look reasonable, although a salinity of 23 (specific gravity 1.017) is very low.

2. The tank seems overstocked. With a 20, especially a new 20, two fish is about right. How long has it been set up?

3. There isn't much biofiltration in there. Without more live rock, a wet/dry or even a UG filter, that load may be too much for the tank.

4. The pH is not great, but OK. It's probably dropping a bit because of the combination of organic acids and CO2 produced by the livestock, but is in a range that fish will tolerate. If it's CO2, vigorous aeration of a sample will increase the pH.

Three possible theories. None may be right.
1. Oxygen depletion. Saltwater holds less O2 than FW, the temp is a little high, and the population is somewhat high.
2. Ich may be starting. It starts at the gills.
3. The tank has begun to cycle. Are you sure the tank actually cycled before the fish went in? I hope this doesn't sound insulting, I just haven't heard that any of those products work in SW.
 
Last edited:

Cunch

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Jul 6, 2004
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I use to be a resident in that area of the island (Beaconsfield) and also a former employee at Nature Pet Center in Pointe Claire, the tap water in those parts is definitly not the most favorable for a saltwater tank. Fluctuating PH and hard alkline water was if I remember correctly the water type in that area which the water company in the area did its water treatments on Tuesday nights.. So wait a couple of days for any PH's fluctuations to balance out. |

If you want an excellent "face to face" resource in your area, go to Nature Pet Center or Centre d'animaux, and talk to Wally Butler or Natalie (I can't remember her last name -- Short blonde haired lady) Both will be excellent resources in giving you any aide you may need in your local area.


Cunch
 

ScottoMacD

Charlie and Amanda's Daddy
Dec 21, 2001
676
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Vaudreuil-Dorion, Quebec, Canada
Update

Hi all.
First off thanks for the replies.

I guess I should fiirst respond to all the inquiries then say what I have done and am doing.

Guy W: Yes I am using dechlor. A good one. I make it myself. Have been for a while now. Works great and is much cheaper than buying premade. Since we don't have chloramines up here I have no worries.

My kit is a salt water kit by Aquarium Pharmacuticals. I always buy that one even for my fresh because it includes the nitrate test which until recently you had to by seperately in the fresh water kit.

mogurnda: My specfic gravity is at 23. I read the wrong line on the hydrometer (sp?) sorry.

I agree that it is cutting it close fish wise. I really wasn't planning on keeping the chromis'. They just sort of grew on me. Charlie dosen't even seem to notice them. All he talks about is Nemo. I could very well take them back to work and quarentine them there until they are better then keep them in our show tank. He probably wouldn't even notice that they were gone.

You misunderstood me when I said that I cheated the cycle. I took floss, bioballs, crushed coral, and some water from the reef systems at work to cycle the tank.
I also don't believe in any magic products for salt or fresh. They are all snake oil with a very select few.

As for insulting me... BAH! I'm too bloody thick skinned and full of myself to ever be insulted. :D Besides I came here to ask you folks for help. You are just doing and asking what any good hobbiest would do in helping someone out with a tank problem.

Cunch: I know Nat and Wally well. I have been going there for years. I was dealing with Helene, Mike Marc etc... for ages. I still sell the store my cichlids when my store can't take them. I started going there when the store was in the Chapters store location when they had "fluffy" the nurse shark.

I have had numerous chats with the people of Pointe-Claire about their water. Even now since the Big Al's I work at opened up on Sources I talk to them regularly. The water stinks and they know it. I get frequent emails from them with warnings about what they are going to be doing.

Thanks for answeing.

Now here is what I did today.

I adjusted the water flow to give more surface aggitation which should help with the O2. I also turned down the heater to 76 degrees and am now keeping the room door open to allow the house AC to flow more unobstructed into the room. The room was hot. It seems better tonight. The tank temp is a stable 79 degrees now.

I buffered the tank with marine buffer to get the tank to a solid 8.0

I also had worries about ich and or parasites. After talking to some of the salties at work they seem to agree. Ich, flukes and Oodinium were what came up most in our chat.

I though that I had some formalin at home but I didn't. So I gave all 4 fish a 10 minute freshwater bath with Life Bearer. It went well. The fish were swimming around after and seemed more active. Tomorrow I will give another bath but this time I will take some formalin from work and use that for the next few days.

I also noticed some white poop with one of the ocellaris. So as a preventative move I feed normally but added some Metronidazole to the food. They all ate nicely. I will be keeping an eye on that as well.

So that is were I am right now.
Comment? Suggestions?

Thanks again all. I will keep you up to date.
 

AW2EOD

Former Squid
Jun 14, 2004
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I'll definately agree with mogurnda. You need to try your best to get rid of those 2 Chromis.

I have a 15gal. reef with a Nemo (my girlfriend just HAD to have it). I ended up with the Nemo, a Purple Firefish and the a Bicolor Blenny. The same day that I added the Blenny, everyone was gasping (if you search you'll find my thread for "rapid breathing"). I could not, for the life of me, figure it out. My water specs. were perfect, the fish healthy, I was doing water changes thinking it is was the ammonia, etc. I ended up killing a Flower Anenome and a Sally Light Foot Crab. I took the Blenny back to the fish store and once he was gone, everything went back to normal. Come to find out, the gasping was caused by the overstocking of my tank which caused a LOT of stress for everyone.

That would be first suggestion...get rid of the Chromis, if Charlie has to keep the Nemos. After that, see where you're at.

Other than that, try another small canister filter or maybe a very small power head for circulation and oxygen. Seems a good rule of thumb is you can never have enough filtration.
 

Gealcath

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Nov 9, 2003
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Unlike the clowns in finding Nemo, Real clown fish are from the damsel familiy and they are MEAN fish and very territorial, especially in a 20gl with 2 clowns and 2 chromis is asking for a war zone.
 
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