20L Nano Planning... Need advice...

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valval1029

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Aug 29, 2004
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DECIDED TO WAIT ON A FOWLR UNTIL I CAN AFFORD A 90-125 GALLON. I'VE BEEN RESEARCHING NANOS ON NANO-REEF.COM AND OTHER FORUMS. CHRISTOPHER MARKS FROM NANO-REEF.COM GIVES THE FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS AND I WOULD LIKE YOUR FEELINGS ON THEM...


"The natural method of filtration consists of only liverock and livesand. No protein skimmers are used and no additives are dosed. The nutrient export is provided by frequent partial water changes of 10-15% about every week. Trace elements are replenished through water changes.
With this natural method, no protein skimmers or dosing is used. Studies of skimmers have shown that they remove various trace elements, along with pods and plankton. When people run protein skimmers, they dose trace elements to replenish them after their corals and skimmers use them. Because the skimmer removes most of the elements, such as iodine, it is dosed back in causing almost an endless cycle. The main problem this holds in nano reefing is that many of the trace elements cannot be easily tested for, so no one ever knows where their level is. This can lead to overdosing which will crash a nano reef in a matter of hours. The skimmer also begins to starve your corals by removing their food source. It's simply too risky.
Protein skimmers are beneficial however, because they remove excess nutrients from the water, but this advantage is out weighed by the disadvantages. To remove the excess nutrients from this system you do a partial water change. The water change also doubles to replenish your trace elements, which are in your synthetic sea salt. Nitrates are removed, dissolved organic compounds are removed, and your trace elements are replaced. Your nitrates will always be at or near zero, and the elements will stay at a constant level. Use a powerhead or two to give you a flow rate of about 7-10 times the tank's total water volume. I encourage everyone to try this method for their nano reef. It is uncommon to not use a protein skimmer, but nano reef keeping isn't the same as a traditional sized reef (though this method also works great on larger tanks). It's simple, it's cheap, and there is no equipment to worry about. As I always say, the less 'toys' you have on your reef, the less there is to go wrong."

"Powercompact retrofit kits and canopies are highly recommended. These powercompact lamps will provide your nano reef with plenty of light for many types of corals. For the heater, we only recommend using a 50w or 75w Ebo Jager heater, as these are the only heater we have had success with in such a small aquarium. Lastly, you will need a small powerhead pump for circulation. We have found Marineland's Penguin powerhead 550 to be quiet and reliable, but all other similarly sized pumps will work."


SO, I AM THINKING OF A 20L WITH LIVE ROCK AND LIVE SAND. NO PROTEIN SKIMMER, IT SEEMS??? WHAT IS INTEGRATED FILTRATION? I SEE THAT TENECOR AND OTHERS HAVE FALSE BACK WITH FILTRATION BEHIND, WITH DIFFERENT MEDIA. CAN THE MEDIA BE TAKEN OUT AND USE LR INSTEAD... DOES THIS FALSE BACK ACT AS A SUMP, BY GIVING MORE VOLUME AND FOR HIDING THINGS. WHERE COULD I HIDE A POWERHEAD? I WOULD LIKE NOT TO SEE THE "EXTRAS" IN THE TANK AND ALSO AVOID THINGS HANGING OUT OF THE BACK. HOWEVER, OVERFLOW TANKS DON'T COME IN 20 GALLON I THINK. GETTING CONFUSED.
:confused: ALSO, HE RECOMENDS COMPACT FLUORESCENT FOR A NANO.

I WOULD LIKE LR, SOME INVERTEBRATES, AND SOFTIES... DEFINITELY PERCULA CLOWNS... HOW MANY COULD I FIT? CAN YOU PUT MORE THAN 2 IN A TANK? ALSO, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SUMP AND FUGE? I WOULD LIKE NOT TO PUT ONE UNDER MAIN TANK B/C THE STAND DOESN'T HAVE ROOM.

ALL SUGGESTIONS ARE APPRECIATED AS I SEE THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS TO GO ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A DIY PERSON AND WOULD LIKE SOMETHING SIMPLE... :) I MISS HAVING A TANK AND AM GOING THROUGH WITHDRAWAL!

HERE ARE TWO EXAMPLES OF THE FALSE BACK AQUARIUMS...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4325871940&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

IT ALSO SAYS: Reef enthusiast please email for info on an OPTIONAL Venturi Skimmer system that fits inside the media chamber.
Remove trhe bioballs/driptrays and slide in a state of the art, high capacity venturi skimmer /pump.
A perfect mini-reef setup for the Reef enthusiast.

http://www.tropicalfishstore.com/simplicity.htm
 

OrionGirl

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I agree with his method--I have a 10 gallon tank with a 15 gallon sump. I have one powerhead in the tank, along with the return flow from the pumps in the sump for current. The heater is in the sump. I have a skimmer, but don't ever run it, and do about 5 gallon water changes weekly. I have CF bulbs in an incandescent hood. The tank is about 8 months old, and is really starting to come together. Polyps are spreading, along with lots of tube worms and cup corals. I have one large mussel (on some live rock--he's lived for about 3 months so far) and a tiny clam, about the size of the tip of my thumb, that also came on the live rock and has been in there for 6 months--he's actually growing.

I would go with a 20 gallon tank, and a 10 gallon sump. You can use a large powerhead for return, and place the return pipe with several openings to direct flow all around the tank. All other equipment can go in the sump.

For stock--only a pair of perculas. They are very territorial. Get 2 that are the same size. The dominant one will become a female, and the smaller a male. Adding more will cause some serious fighting, and in such a small setup, the weaker fish is likely going to be killed. You could add some smaller gobies, as well as cleaner shrimp/crabs, snails, and some softies and polyps.
 

knowthemath

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I'm really interested in what you're doing. My son wants to set up a nano in his dorm room which will probably be his Christmas present. Instead of buying a nanocube, I was thinking of getting a 20L. I use a protein skimmer which I love, but am curious about a setup without one. The author of the article makes sense. My son will not be able to have a sump or refugium in the dorm....the 20L is pushing it. I orginally was thinking about a skimmer, but I'm open for other suggestions. What will you use as filtration?
 

OrionGirl

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In my tank? Live rock and sand, with lots of micro-fauna for clean up. The bacteria colonize the rock and sand, and the critters clean up leftovers and break down wastes before they can contribute to ammonia and nitrite levels. I have just one fish, recently added, so the bio-load is very low on this tank.
 

valval1029

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Aug 29, 2004
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Thanks OG! I appreciate your input and am still researching. I know you are pro-sump, but it doesn't seem that all nanos have them. I know adding volume helps as well as a place to hide things...
If I didn't use one, how could that work for me as far as set up? Just with powerheads?

Also, I asked this awhile ago, but IF I GO WITH A SUMP, instead of DIY sump, could I get a large wet/dry and remove the bioballs, and put LR instead?

Either way, I would have to have the tank drilled, right? I don't think they sell the smaller size tanks pre-drilled. As always, Thanks again for your excellent advice. :bowing:

Sorry, but I'm just used to the old method of a canister filter with crushed coral, so I feel like this is all so new to me... :)
 

valval1029

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OK, so right now I'm looking at a 25 gallon with false back (sump behind). Tank is 23x15x15 and the back 3 inches (behind back wall) is the sump. There is the main power head to circulate water. It will circulate the tanks 7-10 times per hour. Heater goes in the sump.
There is an optional Venturi Protein Skimmer w/ pump for $99. SHOULD I FORGET ABOUT THIS BASED ON THE INFO MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY IN THE POST ABOUT SKIMMERS???

"The*25 gallon has a four stage wet/dry. As an option you can remove the bioball and slide in a skimmer ($99 with a venturi pump)" I will be removing the bio-balls.

130 watt compact system (High output) (Twin 65 watt system - 23" long) Complete*JBJ *Light system including bulbs and reflector installation is $179. Day and Blue. (Is this a good amount of lighting for LR, corals, and invertebrates? How about an anemone in the future?) There is an optional fan for $25. Is it necessary? The room my tank will be in is never over 74/75 in the summer...but I don't know how much the lights will heat the tank...

PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR FEEDBACK ON THIS SET UP BEFORE I PURCHASE... :p
 
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mogurnda

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First, I think statements like "Because the skimmer removes most of the elements, such as iodine, it is dosed back in causing almost an endless cycle" are just silly. There is a lot of debate about the benefits/drawbacks of skimmers, but it's pretty clear there's not enough data to say anything like that.

I am a skimmer person. I used one on my 20H, and found that water quality went down when I wasn't using it. I only dosed Ca and carbonate to keep up with the demands of the stony corals. I had it on a timer to be off for feeding time and the first several hours after lights off to allow everyone to eat.

Frankly, though, I have seen beautiful tanks with and without skimmers, so I can't push too hard one way or the other.

130 watts of PC light will be good for your tank. I used essentially the same light, and the growth of soft and stony corals was such that I needed to frag the corals pretty regularly. I never tried anemones, so I don't know how they will do. A bubbletip (entacmea quadricolor) clone may be fine, but I always worried that it would wander around and kill things.

I like fans on lights. If nothing else, it helps keep the temperture from rising when they come on.
 
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OrionGirl

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I too am a fan of fans on lights--there easy to turn on, and you'd be surprised how much heat lights can put out, especially in more enclosed systems.

Onthe skimmer--it's up to you. On small tanks, where it's not a big deal to do frequent small water changes, I'm in favor of going that route. But, it's up to you, really.
 
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