New tank inhabitants

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K-Dubbs

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Oct 4, 2004
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Hi, I'm new to saltwater tanks (hence newbie forum)
I'm 17 yrs from WI
I work at petworld in the fish/reptile room, but i am still new to fish
I know the basics, but I just recently started my new tank

It is a 46 gal bow front
Right now I am changing the canister filter (Cascade 1000) to a wet/dry filter
I have crushed coral for the substrate
I have about 15 lbs of live rock and about 20 lbs of live dry base rock
I have 36" coral sun and reef sun bulb by ESU
I also have 3 damsels to start the cycling (been in there for about 1 week)
After the cycling, the damsels are going back to the store, and I am contemplating on what inhabitants to put in the tank.

I have access to most fish because I work at the Petstore and I can order almost anything that we don't currently have.

I also have time to watch the fish b4 i bring them home to make sure they are eating good and are good speceimins.

My dad is funding/helping with the tank, and he wants to get some variety, inverts, corals, anemones, and "pretty fish".

While i realize this might not be possible... I am taking into consideration what he wants, is there any way to acchieve this?

I know each of the 3 groups has specific needs, but at least if i could get one or two from one group and the rest from the 3rd group that would be ok.

Mabey cleaner shrip, some ritteri anemones ect...

I also was wondering how many fish would be a good number for a reef tank I know with such a small tank I will have to keep it low... just how low I don't know.

Some fish I was looking into:
Coral Beauty
Lemonpeel Angel
Flame Angel
a few others...

I personally want some color in the tank (who dosen't?)

anyways, suggestions, tips ect. thanx
 

Gealcath

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Take out the crushed coral and replace it with sand, either Aragonite or regular silica play sand. You can usually find one or the other, or sometimes both at places like homedepo ALOT cheaper then buying them at a pet store ($30 for a 10lbs bag at a pet store, or $4 for a 50lbs bag at homedepo)

Also using fish to cycle a aquarium isnt the best thing to do, since it damages the fish used, and the bacteria cultures are only able to handle the waste from the fish used, in this case only 3 damsels will be supported by the bacteria. Using a raw cocktail shimp and not using any fish will get a bacteria culture capable of supporting anything you want to put in there.
 
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K-Dubbs

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is it really that imperative to change the crushed coral to sand... explain reasoning behind this?, and cleaning the sand will be hard no? also, thats a lot of work, i'd have to take out all the live rock for a period of time, the fish too, and the filter will undoutbly need to be cleaned after putting the sand in, am i right?
 

K-Dubbs

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Oct 4, 2004
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would it be a possibility to take out some of the CC and then add sand over whats left of the CC creating a sort of mix?
 

Aquarius0015

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Cleaning sand is easier than cleaning CC. CC is quite large and nasty particles fit in between, meaning you've got to constantly stir it up to get all the gunk out. Sand compacts quite nicely, so all the nasty stuff stays on top.

If you mix CC and sand, the CC will eventually (although it might take a long time) end up on top. That's just how these things work- larger particles always end up on top of smaller particles- like potato chips and their crumbs.

As long as you're careful with adding the sand (ie not sloshing water all over it) it won't make the water too cloudy. Basically you'd want to drain the tank, take out fishies and rock and such, scoop out the CC, add the sand, then add the water and fishies and rocks and such. When you pour the water into the tank with sand, lay down a plate and try to aim the stream of the water onto the plate. That way the sand bed isn't disturbed too much.
 

Max

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I'd also take out the damsels when you're doing the bottom adjustment. They otherwise will be a MAJOR pita to catch. You might want to see if you could put your l.r. in storage at your work and do a fishless cycle like Gealcath suggested. The reason you want to get rid of the c.c. and IMO the canister is that eventually it will be a major contributor of nitrate to your tank. No matter how much you vacuum or clean out the media in the canister it just won't get rid of enough detritus after a while to make a difference. The only way to use a canister with a reef set up ,"yup IME again ;) ," is to run it empty and that sort of defeats the purpose and usually cost more than a good power head.
Lots of the critters on your wish list will require a reef set up. That will limit the number and kinds of fish you have . Also they can't take the metabolic toxins that the set up you have now will eventually produce in abundance. I know you work for a lfs and that's most likely the way they tell all their clients to set up tanks ,"works fine for fish only." It's really not a good way to go with a reef set up though . " You think that it sounds like a pita now to take everything down wait until your tanks been set up for a year and you've lost $100's worth of stuff."
A reef tank set up with a dsb or a berlin system," not nearly as easy but works just fine," is best for a lot of different reasons. The critters and bacteria in the sand will eventually convert ammonia back to atmospheric nitrogen and take a lot of waste out of your water. The sand bed will provide a wonderful habitat for bunches of fish,critters and microbes that will greatly enrich the bio-diversity of your tank and allow you to have more stuff in less space.
Anyway not trying to flame at you or anything just wanted to answer your question thoroughly. It was a good one and I hope this helps. Also no this isn't the only way you can go. With the stuff on your wish list though the way your trying will just cause you to waste a bunch of money and have a lot of heart ache. I'd wait on the anemone for at least 8 months to!
hth
Chris
welcome to a.c. by the way !
 

K-Dubbs

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Oct 4, 2004
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thx for all the suggestions guys, although I did have a quick question, What If i took out the fish, ethier take them back to work permenantly or a seperate tank for a few hours, keep the live rock wet and in a syrafoam box for a few hours, take out the CC, throw in the sand while the water is still in there and then set up my new wet/dry after taking of the canister filter, let the water clear up a bit then put back in the live rock/fish(if kept)?
Are there any problems to doing things this way?
 

K-Dubbs

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Oct 4, 2004
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I was reading in a book, the part about substrate reads as follows:

"The substrate

Wheter you use an undergravel or external filter in the aquarium, the bottom of the tank will still be seen as part of the decor. Undergravel filters look natural owing to their use of coral sand and u can sprinkle the same dand to a maxium depth of 12mm (1/2in) over the base of a tank using external filters. Even in this shallow depth of sand, however, detritus may collect and cause pollution problems, and even a thin layer of sand will be unsuitable for burrowing invertebrates and fish such as wrasses. In these cases u will need to filter any thicker layer of substrate to prevent the build up of anaerobic conditions, which would constitute a subsequent pollution hazard."

-from, The book of the Marine Aquarium

how does this apply to CC, and this makes it sound like sand would harm the tank in too great a quantity, is this true? If so then would it not make more sense to mix?

thanks
 

Gealcath

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#1 Toxic gas build ups: These are caused usually by not enough sand movement (critters moving or burrowing through the sand). If you get a good amount of organisms living in the DSB, enough of the sand gets move around to prevent anoxic (which where mistakenly called anerobic in that quote (devoid of all Oxygen) and what you want are anerobic areas (anerobic areas are what you need, since the bacteria which live in anerobic areas live in low oxygen enviornments, so they take the oxygen form Nitrate, turning Nitrate into Nitrogen gas which bubbles out into the atmosphere).


Since the bacteria that break down Nitrates into Nitrogen gas require low oxygen enviornments, CC prevents this since it doesnt restrict water flow enough to develop low oxygen areas (a 3-4" DSB is needed, since the water flow has to be restricted enough to develop anerobic areas, in a 3-4" DSB these areas are in the first 1-2" in sand from the bottom uo) and any uneaten food or wast doesnt get trapped between the CC particles, meaning leftovers can be consumed by scavengers before they get the chance to go through the nitrogen cycle (thus prevent any toxic gas builds ups in the first place, since waste has less time to decay)


Also that book is a little outdated, it would be like buying a 400mhz PC 6 years ago and still calling it top of the line in 2004 (advances in aquaium technology happen as fast as the software industry). Mixing CC and sand also limits the amount of bacteria that develop. This is referd to as surface area. Higher surface area = more space for bacteria to colonize. 1 gain of sand has much more surface area then 1 grain of CC (imagine it like this, say you can fit 1,000,000,000 cells of bacteria on a grain of CC, and now say you can fit 100,000,000 cells on a grain of sand. Now lets say you can fit 200 grains of sand into the same space that the grain of CC takes up. The same amount of sand used to take up the space of the single CC grain can hold 2,000,000,000 cells of bacteria, so double the amount)
 

K-Dubbs

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Oct 4, 2004
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Well... last night was a busy one... set up the wet dry filter, took out the canister, took back the damsels, set the live rock aside (kept wet), took out about half the water, then the CC, bought some play sand from menards (50lbs), mixed with 15lbs of argonite sand. The substrate is now about 2-5" in depth depending on the spot, and the live rock is back in the tank, the tank is cleared up for the most part, I still don't have the wet dry filter on again because I didn't want to get too much sand in there, after getting that started, I should 1 of the raw shrimp that i got from Pick'n'Save? And how long do i leave that in there for? Shoul I let it totally break down, or take it out after a while. Is there anything I need to add to the water? Also, earlier I stated the lighting I had on the tank, which was one 36", 25 watt Reef sun 50/50, and one 36" 25watt coral sun Actinic 420. I was just wonder what you guys thought of this comobo in my twin tube hood. And I was also wondering if there was any other lighting I should add, keep in mind eventually I want this to be a reef tank, although it may take a long time, eventually it will be! Are these lights okay? Will my choices in corals and anemones be limited by this type of lighting? too strong or not enough?
Any suggestions would be great
thx for all the help so far!
 
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