another brush algae fight...sigh

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slvrcvc

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I have a 40 gallon planted tank and have been fighting a brush algae problem on and off for a while now. Usually the brush algae would be small clumps growing on the flourite floor or in small patches on the driftwood. No big-deal as I could remove them and they weren't spreading and for a while actually went completely away.

Now recently this past week the brush algae has really been aggressive and has started growing on ALL my plants wherever they are exposed to the lighting the most, namely the tips of the leaves or tops of them.

I have a 40gal heavy planted tank, 100%flourite, 1-2liter DIY Co2(made fresh every 2-3weeks to keep CO2 ppm at about 12-15ppm) 96watt PC lighting 11hours, dosing with TropicaMasterGrow trace ferts and KCl supplement

filtration is XP2 Filstar and a Emperor 280 HOB. I dont have any phosphate test kits (were unavailable when i tried ordering them online) but I have ordered some phos-zorb packs for my canister filter and will be adding that to my canister when it arrives.

my routine is doing 40-50% water changes every 3-4 days and scrubbing the sides to take out green-spot algae, putting in 3ml of the TMG and 30-40ml of the KCl, per water change; to try and keep potassium near 10-20ppm as per chuck gadd's fert calculator. Not dosing any phosphate or nitrate. Zero ammonia or nitrite on my test kits, pH is 6.8 to 7.2 depending on how fresh the DIY CO2 is.

my plants have been thriving quite well and I have already filled another 10gallon low-light tank with the cuttings from my 40gal. (btw all those cuttings in the 10gal never grow any alage at all...maybe its the low light and no ferts given?)

I will provide some pictures of the tank and some close-ups of the algae on the plants so you can see what my tank and algae are all about.

But this brush algae has forced me to trim my plants heavily since they leaves were basically "taken-over". The brush algae is hair-like (1"-1.5" long) and has a dark green with hint of deep blue when held up closely to the light. At times there are long single strands of green algae (2-3" long) with little dot-like circles or pods equally spaced on the strand.

I'm considering a blackout of the tank but prefer not to. I'm starting to wonder if there is lack of a nutrient that is causing the algae growth but am confused since the plants are growing in size and spreading runners for the past 2 months, it seems, now.

maybe when I trim the plants there is a leak of nutrients into the water column? I often see my ludwigia "weeping" bubbles from the stems when I trim them.

sorry for the long post with erratic jumpings of my thoughts. I'll be adding some pics as soon as I can and next time I'll try to be more clear but its early in the morning and i need some sleep now...zzzz

here are the photos: you can see the black tufts on the plant leaves. It actually is worse when looking at it in RL. The photoimages don't really show how much it covers the entire leaves.



 
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Mr.Firemouth

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Planted aquariums must come to a balance over time. I would definately get a phosphate test kit and test your tap water for phosphate and nitrates. If you prefilter your tap water with R.O. or deionized water you will notice that algea is almost non-existing. You must buffer this water back up to a hardness of 160ppm to stop your ph from crashing from soft water with C02. Also, anytime you have an algal bloom of any kind it is necessary to stop using all fertilizers until you notice adverse affects on plant growth, leaf size, or overall health and color of plants. Once you notice a deficiency you should then add the supplements at 50% the recommended dose. This will prevent algea from getting a good foothold. I have a 120g planted tank that is algae free. I use Seachem flourish and A.Pharm Leaf Zone. I dose only once a week and I have Co2 injection and pc lighting. In the first 6 months I battled cyanobacteria, slime algea, blanketweed, and brush algea which is really a red algea but looks green/blue. Then over a period of a week the tank balanced and has been fine for the last 5 years. I cut my plants every 2 weeks. This tank has over 100 fish( tetras,cories,rams,ottos,etc.) and has no filter. I use a pump in a sump to circulate water. I have no detectable levels of nitrates. Ocassionally during heavy spurts of growth I will see pin holes in older leaves indicating that I should supplement more, but they are going to be cut out in 2 weeks any way so I don't mind and I anticipate the new growth instead. My best advise is to temporarily stop supplementing and test your tap water and to continue with weekly water changes. Resupplement as I stated earlier and prefilter your tap water if there is a problem with your water source. Also, do not vac the gravel when doing water changes as this will release nutrients and add to the problem. Good Luck!
 

slvrcvc

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thanks for the quick response.

I will look into RO water and see if that is feasible for me, moneywise

also will look again into getting a phosphate test kit

I'll do water changes now without adding ferts following the directions you said

....if anyone else has more advice I'd apprectiate it. I can never learn enough :)
 

plantbrain

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Mr.Firemouth said:
Planted aquariums must come to a balance over time. I would definately get a phosphate test kit and test your tap water for phosphate and nitrates. If you prefilter your tap water with R.O. or deionized water you will notice that algea is almost non-existing. You must buffer this water back up to a hardness of 160ppm to stop your ph from crashing from soft water with C02. Also, anytime you have an algal bloom of any kind it is necessary to stop using all fertilizers until you notice adverse affects on plant growth, leaf size, or overall health and color of plants. Once you notice a deficiency you should then add the supplements at 50% the recommended dose. This will prevent algea from getting a good foothold. I have a 120g planted tank that is algae free. I use Seachem flourish and A.Pharm Leaf Zone. I dose only once a week and I have Co2 injection and pc lighting. In the first 6 months I battled cyanobacteria, slime algea, blanketweed, and brush algea which is really a red algea but looks green/blue. Then over a period of a week the tank balanced and has been fine for the last 5 years. I cut my plants every 2 weeks. This tank has over 100 fish( tetras,cories,rams,ottos,etc.) and has no filter. I use a pump in a sump to circulate water. I have no detectable levels of nitrates. Ocassionally during heavy spurts of growth I will see pin holes in older leaves indicating that I should supplement more, but they are going to be cut out in 2 weeks any way so I don't mind and I anticipate the new growth instead. My best advise is to temporarily stop supplementing and test your tap water and to continue with weekly water changes. Resupplement as I stated earlier and prefilter your tap water if there is a problem with your water source. Also, do not vac the gravel when doing water changes as this will release nutrients and add to the problem. Good Luck!
Umm tap water supplies of NO3 and PO4 would help this person's tank, not help.

RO water only complicates and adds expense, not help planted tanks.
RO water might be needed for the fish, but the plants will gladly enjoy the extra PO4/NO3.

PO4 and NO3 do not cause algae to grow on plants BTW.
The problem here is that he does not have any PO4 (So he has green spot algae-a sign of low/absent PO4), nor NO3, nor enough CO2(hence the BBA).
These are patterns and repeatable test you can do if you so chose.

I have large tanks and have done many over many years, my plants look better than yours.

If you dosed 2-3x a week, and added KNO3, KH2PO4, the plant's health would dramatically improve. No holes, viberant health, no algae.

Up the CO2 to 20-30ppm during the light peroid.

Poor CO2 is 90% of the problem.
The rest is a lack of nutrients, not excess.

My NO3 is about 10-20ppm PO4 is 1.0ppm +, CO2 ~30ppm, I have not had algae for a decade and have grown close to 300 species to Amano like health or better.

You had Cyano becuase of low NO3.
BBA because of low CO2.
GS because of low PO4

Poor plant growth causes algae, higher lighting means faster plant growth so you need to keep up with this increased rate of uptake, otherwise you will get algae.

Also, you'll note this person has DIY CO2, what are the odds this is CO2 related?

Extremely high.

KH can be 50ppm, not 160ppm and be perfectly fine regarding CO2 dosing, where the heck did you come up with 160ppm?

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
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Blinky

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Tom, I want to say thank you for replying to slvrcvc's post in such detail - I just started learning about plants and wanted to tell you posts like this really help not just the person you're replying to, but others as well.
I'm going to go fertilize my plants and add another bottle to the DIY CO2 now, lol :D
 

plantbrain

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I'm getting crotchety I think because I've said the same things for a decade now and folks are slow to get through these myths.

Fortunately I will have a book out in Dec of 2005 or so.
More CO2 is the order of the day for about 90% of folk's issues, the rest are aminly not adding enough NO3/PO4/K/Traces for the large amount light folks seem hell bent on using.

DIY while easy and cheap, is not always the most consistent. I used it for about 10 years, I know it well on many tanks.

Best thing I did was get canned CO2, the next, flourite.

Good CO2, good substrate, low to moderate light(2 w/gal will grow most anything) will solve a lot of problems for folks and give the most wiggle room.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

slvrcvc

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ok so I did a 50% water change tonight as well as re-calculated my ferts to start using some KNO3 (stump remover). Also started dosing some Flourish Excel in addition to my DIY CO2 until I can research a good price on a pressurized CO2 setup (I'm thinking of getting the non-automatic one from Foster&Smith for like $129).

In the morning I will find some fleet for my phosphate dosing & see if I can order a phosphate test kit. I already have a pH and KH test to monitor my CO2 levels and will try to keep them close to 20ppm as possible (right now its at 14ppm). Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. btw whats the name of your book going to be called ?
 

plantbrain

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Read this:
http://www.aquatic-plants.org/articles.html

See "fertilization"

This will help you add the right amount for your light level.
Shoot for 30ppm for CO2, not 20 except as a bare minmum at night right before the lights go off etc.

Excel at your light level is about 1/3 as effective as CO2, so adding it will not greatly improve anything, eg, adding CO2 will do far more and help the plants more than Excel ever will.

I've seen sloenoid, bubble countering/needle valve units for 89$ or so.
Reg beer CO2 units for 45-55$, add a needle valve for 11$(eg a clippard minimatic) and you have the same thing pretty much DIY(screw a few things together) for about 65-70$.
A DIY CO2 reactor is easy also, run about 10$
CO2 tank, look at Fire extingusher places, ice/soda/beer/beverage places etc.
I found 10 and 15 and 20lb tanks for ~50$ filled, they are cheaper than welding places.

For your 40 gal:
I'd decommission the Emperor 280, the XP is super for a 40 gal.
10 hours light
Add another 2 liter CO2 bottle, change every other week and stagger the changes so that one bottle is changed each week when you do the water change.

Place the flow from the filter near the CO2 ladder so that good current passes by.

Add the following:
1/4 teaspoon every other day of KNO3(this adds about 7ppm of NO3 to a 40(you have substrate and other things in there))
On that same day add: 4-6 drops of the enema(get the one without Glycerin).

On the off day, add 7 mls of TMG.

Do 20 gal water changes once a week, dose macros that day right after.
Next day dose traces and keep going.

Crank CO2.(be careful not to go too far over board).

You should see a lot of plant health improvements.
Main thing is testing for the pH for CO2 measurements.

That's the most critical thing.
The nutrients like NO3/PO4/K etc, you will not need to worry since the water change prevent build up and the dosing prevents anything from running out.

Simple and effective and requires no testing(kits are often not accurate at low levels etc).

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Alex Perez

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Tom is so right on this.
When I started with planted tanks about a year ago. I always had problems with BBA and other algae. I would always under fertilize and keep my CO2 at low levels. The reason I did this was all the information I was reading It had me scared of an Algae outbreak if I over did it, or killing my fish if my CO2 was to high.

We'll After finding some new boards and reading some of Tom's Post I decided to give his suggestions a go. It couldn't get any worse so I figured why not.

I upped my CO2 to over 30 ppm, Nitrates >10ppm PO4 >1.0 ppm.
I used to keep my Nitrates at 5ppm PO4 <.5ppm (less if I could) and CO2 at 20ppm.
In less than 2 weeks I was amazed at the difference it had made.
BBA no longer spreading and growing, Fuzz Algae dying off. Plants growing better than they had ever been. I even had my CO2 at over 40ppm and the fish didn't seem to be affected by it.
 

plantbrain

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Alex et al,

Older advice is based on low light tanks, 1.5-2w/gal and normal output FL, often without nice mirrored reflectors etc.

As you increase the lighting, you increase the CO2 and nutrient demand rates of the plants.

If not, you run out.
Then you get algae.

Plants have more reseveres than algae in some ways and many plants stop growing actively, but they don't die like the algae(alkgae don't really die, they produce lots of spores when things change that wait till you do something wrong again).


Likewise, if you lower the light/add no CO2, this slows the rate of growth and thus the demand for these nutrients.

That is why a non CO2 plant tank can have the fish supply primarily all the nutrients the plants need.But growth is slow, some plants are picky and do not flourish as well.Each method does have a trade off but the underlying principle is the same in all cases.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
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