tank upgrade questions: cycling, eco-complete, load, and compatibility

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ambrosiamonkey

Doing the Community Thing
Dec 9, 2004
63
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Berkeley, California
Hi! I'm new here, and even though I've been keeping a 12 gallon tank for three years, I'm posting in the newbie section, because it's been three years since I set up a new tank, and I'm sure there's new stuff to know.

I've just moved into a bigger place suited for a larger tank, and I've ordered a 50 gallon tank from Dr. Foster and Smith. ( this is the tank) I'm going to move the current occupants of my 12 gallon tank into the 50 gallon and use the 12 for quarantine purposes. (Currently I just have 2 zebra danio, 2 small clown loaches, and 1 mystery algae eater that I have yet to identify. The LFS told me it was a pleco, but it hasn't grown much in three years, and is sort of a plain reddish sand color.)

I've been reading about fishless cycling, but I understand from what I've read that fishless cycling doesn't work with planted tanks? Since I have an active tank going, I figure I can get a good supply of bacteria from my existing filter media, and I am thinking about using Eco-complete for the substrate, so between the two I figure cycling shouldn't be too much of an issue. I am planning a fairly densely planted tank, and it seems so much easier to do the aquascaping before there are any fish in the tank, so I'd like to start with plants- some Jungle Val, and java fern, with a couple of pieces of driftwood, and probably some dwarf saggitaria.

My questions:

1. Is eco-complete really as good as I hear? How many bags would I need to get 3.5 to 4 inches of substrate in a 36x15 tank? I called Drs. F&S and they said that I would need 50 pounds, or 2.5 bags, but googling I found a website calculator that said I would need 90 pounds of eco-complete! (ouch, that gets expensive.)

2. once the tank is fully cycled, any tips on transitioning the fish from the 12 gallon to the 50 gallon? All at once? In batches? Does it make a difference if I am going to get more of the same kind of fish (I'm planning to add, eventually, more zebra danios and more clown loaches, I think they'd be happier that way.)

3. How many fish can I reasonably add to this tank? Let's say I'll wind up with a total of 7 or 9 zebra danio, and maybe 5 clown loaches. Would there be room for anything else? I'm thinking about rainbowfish- any other suggestions?

4. The tap water in the new place is *very* soft, almost too soft, with a fairly high pH. Any tips on how best to deal with this? Are there any different fish I should consider based on the soft water?

5. I have a water test kit but the little bottles of test drops are starting to run out and I need more. Are the testing dip-strips any good? It seems so much easier, I'm sure I'd test more frequently if it wasn't as involved as a high school chemistry lab project.

Sorry this is so long-winded.


Thanks for your advice!
 

snakeskinner

AC Members
Dec 27, 2003
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1, never used the stuff so I can't comment. 2, planted tanks are usually easier to cycle from what I've always been told. the plants help with the nitrogen cycle. being you already have and wish to have more of the favorite cycling fish, I would just set up the plants and tank for about a week and add your current danio's along with some more and leave the tank for a few weeks like that. then move the loaches. I would find out what that "pleco" is before adding it because most pleco's will destroy a planted tank. go to planetcatfish or scott-catfish websites and search around for what you have. Or post a photo and someone can help. 3, the loaches and danio's would be fine and you should be able to add more depending on the fish. rainbows would be a good choice with the other inhabitants and are a nice fish to keep. 4, the majority of any fish you will buy are adaptable to any water conditions, they just don't like abrupt changes. do a gradual conversion to the new water and you'll be fine as it is. 5, I have tried some of the test strips and I get highly fluctuating results and they are way off from any of the other test kits I've used so I don't trust them. others may feel different though. Kyle
 

Nuriel

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Sep 6, 2004
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sounds like a rubber lipped pleco. my rubberlip is reddish color and three inches long. they do not get larger than five inches full grown.
 

ambrosiamonkey

Doing the Community Thing
Dec 9, 2004
63
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Berkeley, California
Thanks for the answers!

I actually emailed the manufacturer of eco-complete to ask about how many bags I would need, and they responded by saying I would need 5 to 6 bags to get a 3.5 to 4 inch deep substrate in a tank measuring 36 by 15. It's expensive, but I'm going to go ahead and do it, and report back.

Good info on the rubber-lipped pleco. It might well be that, or something very similar. The tank it's in is also planted, although not densely, (dwarf sagittaria, cabomba and an amazon sword) and it doesn't seem to upset the plants much, but I'll keep an eye on it.
 

anonapersona

Reads a lot, knows a little
Mar 7, 2003
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Houston
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moving a la skepticalaquarist

You might want to look at the SkepticalAquarist site, good info on moving a tank.

I suggest taking everything over to the new tank all at once.

Remove fish, decor and plants to a big 20 gallon bucket, with cover to keep fish in, maybe airstone and heater as needed. Add Prime or Amquell so you can take your time on the move.

Remove the top 3/4" of gravel and preserve it in a shallow pan of tank water, for that is where good bacteria is living. Then add the bottom most gravel to the new tank, then the new EcoComplete, then the old top gravel. Add some small amount of conditioned water.

Then plants, (may do a partial water change here is water is too dirty) filter, heater, and fish.

No cycle as you have moved everything all at once, bacteria also.
 

ambrosiamonkey

Doing the Community Thing
Dec 9, 2004
63
0
0
Berkeley, California
anonapersona said:
You might want to look at the SkepticalAquarist site, good info on moving a tank.
Thanks for the link! I hadn't seen that site yet, and it's full of good information.

At this point, I'm still waiting for the new tank to arrive (!), so I have time to figure out what to do.
 

reiverix

Aye
Sep 4, 2004
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Columbus, OH
Here's how I upgraded from a 20g to 75g -

Setup 75g with Fluval 304, lots of stem plants, 70% Eco-Complete to 30% Estes black gravel, heater, rocks and bogwood.

I let this run for two weeks, periodically taking plants and rocks from the 20g and adding them. Test water between both tanks every day. They were similar for me because the tanks were almost the same in decor, plants, etc.

After this time, I took the Fluval 204, plants, bogwood, rocks from the 20g and added it to the 75g. I caught all the fish and put them in a large bucket. Slow drip water from 75g into the bucket over an hour period.

Add fish to new tank. I experienced no spikes whatsoever, possibly because the 204 was full of bacteria and the high number of plants.

Then I added a hob filter to the 20g with some media from the 204 and used it as a QT tank for my stocking. This was a wise move because a batch of cardinals I bought had NTD and only one survived. I shudder to think if I'd just added them to the main tank.

Good luck.
 

ambrosiamonkey

Doing the Community Thing
Dec 9, 2004
63
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0
Berkeley, California
reiverix said:
I let this run for two weeks, periodically taking plants and rocks from the 20g and adding them. Test water between both tanks every day. They were similar for me because the tanks were almost the same in decor, plants, etc.
*slaps forehead*

This is such a good idea! I have a couple of pieces of driftwood I'd bought for the new tank, and I'd been soaking them to release the tannins, but that's nearly done- I should put them in the existing tank (there should be room) until I'm ready to set up the new one, and then move them over. It never would have occurred to me to do that, but it should help establish things, right?

And I will *definitely* be using the 12 G to quarantine the new fish before adding them to the new tank. I've already learned that lesson the hard way when I didn't have a spare tank...
 

reiverix

Aye
Sep 4, 2004
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Columbus, OH
I think the key was moving the established filter and fish at the same time. Plus the fact that moving them into a larger planted tank can only help.

It's not all been roses though. I'm just starting to defeat some very persistent staghorn algae after a two month battle. I just remind myself that it's only two months out of a lifetime hobby.
 
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