Controlling Algae during a Fishless Cycle

superstein61 · Jan 22, 2003

OK, I don't recall seeing this topic addressed so I was wondering how everyone who has done a fishless cycle has controlled algae.

I assume the easiest way is no plants - and thus no lights during the cycle.

However, for those of us who made the mistake of putting plants in before starting a fishless cycle, what have you done - or what would you recommend (yea, I know I could take the plants out and deal with no light - but I would rather see what other options exist)

For background purposes, I have a bunch of low light plants in my 72 gallon (4 Java Ferns, 1 Bolbitis Fern, Some Java Moss, 2 large Anubias Nana, 1 large Anubias COffeeolia and about 10 smaller water sprites). No CO2 and until recently, just a 40 watt light.

Knowing that light was inadequate, I upgraded it a day and a half ago to a 110 Watt power compact (using an AH Supply conversion kit).

I didn't really have any real algae problems the first several weeks. About a week ago, when the first signs of Nitrite appeared, a few strands of hair or beard algae (can't decide what it is - its bright green, about 1 to 2 inches long, sways/ripples in my water current) appeared . I removed it manually - and continued to do so each day or every other day it showed up. Two days ago, (my Nitrates were reading about 40ppm -or was it .40 - I can't recall - but it was just creepeing into the warning area) when I just started testing out the new light, I noticed lots of this hair / beard algae on my front glass. Cleaned that up and ran my new light for about 10 hours yesterday - when I got home (Nitrates up to 80ppm), I noticed lots of this algae on my built in overflow wall and back glass. So cleaned it up again.

Now, I am assuming the main reason is the increase in Nitrate's and not enough plants to absorb all the nutrients (rather than solely the new light since I just started it up). Under that theory, I also went out and added 3 large bunches of Anachris to the tank last evening. I would add more quick growing things like Hornwort or more WaterSprite - but my LFS usually lack in a big variety of plants to begin with, and during the winter, it worse - so Anachris is probably my best choice for a cheap temp. plant until the tank is fully cycled and I can add some algae eating fish to it.

Am I right or wrong about the rise in Nitrates and not enough plants to consume them being the main cause of this? And if so, is adding more fast growing plants the right solution - or do you have other suggestions?

I also though about doing a partial water change - say 50% - to remove some of the Nitrates - but I wasn't sure how that would affect my cycling the tank (I am at the point where Ammonia is fully consumed in less than 24 hours - and Nitrites have peaked and started to drop (back to about 10ppm versus being off the chart) - with Nitrates rising to about 80ppm. ANy thoughts on partial water changes to control the algae without upsetting the rest of the fishless cycle?

Thanks

MP · Jan 22, 2003

First of all, it sounds like your tank finished cycling, so you easily exchange water.

As for fishlessly cycling a tank with plants in, I'd avoid it. One of the main points of this technics is to maintain high wastes concentrations in order to quickly build a sizable colony. Plants (as well as algae) consume both, ammonia and nitrates, so high doses of either would cause algae growth. Ammonia is assimilated by plants more readily than nitrates. And if you manage to make plants consume ammonia excess you'll defeat one of the main purposes of this type of cycling- a quick building of a large colony.

However, if you mimic the regular cycling (very small permanent ammonia additions), you may be more successful. I doubt, however, that you'd like to get involved with this.

There is a way around this, fortunately. You can grow your plants in the main tank while cycling your filter in a separate container.

superstein61 · Jan 22, 2003

MP - thanks for the response - however, I am not sure my tank is finished cycling. While I do have nitrates showing up, my nitrites which have peaked are coming down but are not to the zero level yet. Its my understanding that you need Ammonia and Nitrite to both read zero for a fishless cycle to be complete. Thats why I wasn't sure about doing that partial water change now.

I guess I am still debating on moving the plants - but hoping for a better solution

Richer · Jan 22, 2003

Fishless cycles are generally not suggested for planted tanks, for exactly what happened to your tank. It is in my experience that ammonia causes algae. Add enough ammonia to get a reading on your testers for a few days, and your bound to get algae. Many people claim that high nitrate and phosphates cause algae blooms. While this may be true, I believe these people experienced algae blooms because of an improper balance somewhere in their plant systems. My 70 gallon plant tank did experience a large overdose of nitrate once (I mistakeningly dumped way too much KNO3 into the tank). Nitrates soared into the 50+ppm range. I didn't do any water changes just to see what would happen, I didn't get a strand/tuff/whatever of algae. Tom Barr has experimented with high phosphate tanks, with algae problems as well. It is a matter of balancing nutrient input, light and especially CO2. Quite a few people with algae problems in higher light tanks usually don't have good enough CO2 concentrations. It is my thought that the compact fluorescents from AH Supply (or any other store) aren't too good for low light setups. The light themselves in combination with the mirror reflector can penetrate tanks pretty well.
If your tank has not completely cycled yet, you have a few options.
1.) Remove all of your plants and finish cycling without the plants. Keep in mind, if you do this, it will take a couple more weeks to finish your cycle at the least, as bacterial colonies were not fully established with all of those plants in there. During the cycle, you will obviously want to keep your lights off. After your cycle is complete, you can add your plants.
2.) Do several very large water changes to remove all traces of ammonia and nitrites. Add literally masses of fast growing, cheap plants then add herbivores (ie. algae eaters) a day or two later. While adding herbivores be careful not to overload the tank, as your tank can still crash from too large of a bioload (although somewhat doubtful, seeing how your tank has already partially cycled). Wait a month or two for your tank to fully establish then slowly add fish to your tank as you would if you were doing a fishy cycle w/o plants. Only a couple of fish once a week. Allow that a month or two to establish, then very slowly remove plants and start your aquascaping.

Personally, I would go with option one.

HTH
-Richer

MP · Jan 23, 2003

Superstein, we don't always see (or need to see) the total drop of nitrites. What counts more is the trend: ammonia and nitrites are sharply dropping, nitrates are rising. The large daily ammonia additions, the lag between ammonia introduction and nitrites conversion may obscure the picture somewhat. We frequently see the never ending nitrites stage when daily ammonia additions are unreasonably high.

Naturally, you may wait longer, but with the figures you describe, I'd suspect that cycling is over. However, you can always check it. Change 95% or more of water, add ammonia to, let's say, 3-5ppm (no reasobale bioload would ever produce that much per day) and measure ammonia and nitrites in 24 hours. Neither should be detectable. If they are, just proceed with cycling.

superstein61 · Jan 23, 2003

Richer and MP - thanks for your input !!!

Richer - yes, now I know planted tanks and fishless cycles don't mix well. Didn't realize it initially when I read C. Chow's articles and the other info out there on fisless cycling. Live and Learn

One question for you - you mention that it is your

thought that the compact fluorescents from AH Supply (or any other store) aren't too good for low light setups. The light themselves in combination with the mirror reflector can penetrate tanks pretty well.

I am curious about this - since almost everywhere I read suggested a minimum of 1.5 watts per gallon for low light tanks - and many mentioned compact flourescents. Are you suggesting that to get to 1.5 watts per gallon, that it would be better to use several regular flourescent bulbs? Or VHO ? or that the reflectors actually intsify things too much? Or that 1.5 isn't really necessary for low light setups? I am just curious as to your thinking here - as this is my first foray into a planted tank.

As far as the options go - yes, option 1 is probably the route I will go - if what MP suggested regarding my cycling maybe being completed doesn't do the trick. Thanks

MP - Thanks - ok, I see where you are coming from. Yea, I probably have a big colony producing Nitrites - its consuming my 3ppm of ammonia overnight. But the Nitrites are dropping - and Nitrates rising - so I think what I will do first is as you suggest - do a large water change tomorrow - then add 3ppm of ammonia and see where my nitrites and ammonia read a day later. Hopefully the tank will be cycled - but if not, I will just remove the plants (luckily most are attached to small pieces of driftwood) and finish cycling lights off.

I'd rather go this route - which Richer also prefers - than adding some algae eaters now and slowly finish the cycling process with the plants in the tank.

Thanks for the help

Richer · Jan 23, 2003

Well, from what I've read, many lighting suggestions are usually based on normal fluorescent lighting in a canopy painted white... with no mirror reflector. Check the freshwater archive one non-co2 plant tanks (aka. low/moderate lighted tanks). Reading between the lines, I think Tom Barr also believes that compact fluorescent + their reflectors are also too much for a low/moderate lighted tank. However, there's an easy fix for this... floating plants. There are several types of floating plants that will work quite nicely. I'm working on a moderate lighted 20 gallon bowfront which will also be lighted by a compact fluorescent. I'm going to use the riccia I'm trimming from my 70 gallon tank as a floating plant.

HTH
-Richer

superstein61 · Jan 23, 2003

Richer - thanks - thats interesting info in the archives on the power compacts and low light tanks - people always seem to be pushing more light, more light, even with so called low light plants. Well, I already have some floating plants with my water sprite - and now I have 3 big bunches of Anachris floating there as well - so I can go the floating plant route if need be to tone the lighting down.

NOW, the GOOD NEWS - MP, I think you nailed it. Much to my amazement, the tanks may be fully cycled. Last night, I added 3+ ppm of Ammonia and this AM before work did some tests:

Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrate - 40ppm

And the hair algae that I cleaned off has not reappeared (knock on wood). I was quite surprised since my last test on Tuesday (about 40 hours before this one) had Nitrites at 10ppm and falling and Nitrates at 80ppm and rising. I guess my Nitrite eating bacteria grew rapidly - and those 3 big bunches of Anachris added to my other plants must have been pretty hungry - because they sucked up those Nitrates.

Well, gonna do a big water change tonight, add ammonia add retest tomorrow am - and if all is still a go - fish - here we come !!!


zoomed.com	hikariusa.com		aqaimports.com	Store

Search

Search

Controlling Algae during a Fishless Cycle

superstein61

AC Members

MP

AC Members

superstein61

AC Members

Richer

AC Members

MP

AC Members

superstein61

AC Members

Richer

AC Members

superstein61

AC Members