Swordtail odd white stuff.. odd behaviour. Is she sick?

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poysen

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Aug 16, 2005
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I have a female swordtail here and she's acting really odd.. I've had her a week (to replace a male that was chasing everything in tank) Tonight I noticed some odd behavior and I don't know if she's sick or what. She has been swimming into the filter stream, but she's not actually moving, just moving her tail and staying still. Then sometimes she will swim in a circle (vertically) or she will hit against gravel (not so much this part but she was doing it) She's also swimming without moving anywhere at the surface of the water.. just moving her head and tail side to side but she's staying in place. I looked at her to scrutinize her activities and noticed some white on her tail that I don't believe is part of her markings. As I recall her tail was all black and only white was on her belly. Is she sick? And how can I determine with what without disturbing her and bagging her up to take to local pet shop to be looked at?

Also the swimming without moving at surface is being seen also in the other female Swordtail. She looks normal no white on her or anything though. They seem to do this side by side at the surface.. near the filter. I'm beginning to wonder if they are both females or not. LOL. The one in question is larger than the other with a big round belly. (I tried snapping photos they all come out blurry) :( The one that I'm concerned about has a point of black on the bottom of her tail which is also seen in males just before the beginning of their sword.. Pet shop said they were all females though I suppose they could have been mistaken. :huh:

Thank you for any and all help you are able to provide.

For reference this was the results of my water tests tonight. After the tests I did a 25% water change as well.

ammonia 0.25
nitrite between 0.50 & 1.0
nitrate.. 5.0
 
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FisheyLisa

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Nov 2, 2004
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I believe the swimming in place is result of high ammonia...are they breathing heavy? I think it is a low oxygen supply or buring from ammonia...25 is pretty high. Or it is nitrite poisoning, which is also high and dangerous. Sorry I can't remember the exact problem, I just know when that problem happens, youneed to change the water pretty quick.

Is your tank cycled?

the pet store could have been confused if the swords are very young. If there is a pregnancy, they will probably eat most of their babies anyway.

The white thing could be ich, look for if they are scratching on things. Ich is caused by poor water conditions and the fish immune system's inability to over come the bacteria(?) that causes it, which maybe the case with the readings you stated above.

What I'd do is get your numbers back to 0 with water changes 25-50 a day till fixed, nitrate can have a low reading and it is fine. watch the white and make sure it doesn't grow, and if it does you should find out treatment for ich, either raising tank temp and salt treatment or medication.
 

poysen

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Aug 16, 2005
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I also emailed Tetra last night and they said ammonia poisoning. Though my tank never had really high ammonia levels. I was struggling last week with very high Nitrite levels but after doing 25% and 50% changes (some changes nearly all tank water to be safe) it went down in the course of a few days. My tank isn't completely cycled but I think it's somewhere near the end. I've had it running about 2 1/2 - 3 weeks and also added water from an established tank to speed up process. I was told, prior to this issue by a friend to do 25% changes for a few days then to switch to a 10% change.. though after this if that's what she has I'm not sure if that is too little or not.

I've been doing water changes regularly and vacumming gravel on regular baisis as well. (by regular I mean at each point when levels are .50 or more. I try to keep them at/below that level while it is cycling.)

I have ich medicine here.. if that's not exactly what she has would that hurt to treat her and the tank with it? She does swim normally but mostly hangs out in the filter stream... and I have kinda seen her swimming in circles again when she thought I wasn't watching (she acts differently when I'm near tank) She was hitting the shark in the decor last night, she did it once and I saw her swim through the plants at least once. Would this be a sign of Ich? I also have been adding aquarium salt to every water change.. just a 1/2 TBS per 25% change. I hear it usually will keep Ich away..

As for the poisoning. Can she overcome it? She seemed very healthy up until now. And is it contagious.. are others going to develop this condition? (I have 2 about 2 inch swordtails (female) and 2 1 1/2 inch juvinile swordtails and one male guppy about same size as baby swords.. plus his tail length.)

Anyway, thank you Fishy Lisa for the help. I'm going to look into this poisoning and do a water change.. might contact local pet shop too for some help.

ammonia = between 0 & 0.25
Nitrite = between 0.50 and 1.0
Nitrate = 5.0
(Darn these hard to read liquid tests)

P.S. Local pet shop thinks she has velvet (The white on her is concentrated on the one side of her tail area.. and then if you looked at her head on the other side has it coated along her side.. looks kinda velvety/fuzzy.) .. boy am I ever confused lol. :confused:
 

Holly9937

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Jan 20, 2005
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You need your amonia and nitrite to both be at or very close to 0. They are both very toxic and hard on the fish. You will need to do water changes, maybe more than once a day, to lower the levels. Adding water from an "established" tank will do nothing for adding bacteria to your tank :eek: . Almost all of the beneficial bacteria is in the filter, a little in the gravel.

I would not use the ich medicine. Even if that turns out to the the problem, many meds. are hard on the fish. Check out the ich article in the article section at the top of the page. It explains the disease, and will be a good reference for the future for you. As for the salt, it should not be routinely used. However, it can help clear up many illnesses. For now, you should just focus on water changes, that should help ALOT.
Clean water in itself can help clear up some ailments
 

poysen

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Aug 16, 2005
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Well.. pet shop tested water said my levels are okay. To do 25% changes (which I've been doing.. every day o_O) So, I guess basically do same as I've been doing? The swordtail in question has only been in tank a week. Is it wholly possible she had this from pet shop? Or the natural stress from being moved to a new tank might have made her more susceptible?

as for the tank water.. he swished his bio filter around in it then I added that water to tank.. seemed from my readings to speed up cycling but who knows.

The pet shop tells me she's got velvet.. so I came home with some meds for that. I guess it's worth a shot to make sure others don't get sick too. *Sigh*
 

FisheyLisa

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Nov 2, 2004
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25% is good, I think 10% is too low and if you did the math, you'd see it was really not doing much unless you did it a couple of times a day. You want to stay away from changes over 50% unless they your conditions are so bad that it is an absolute energency. When I cycled with fish, I did daily changes probably about 25-30%, until I had 0 readings on nitrite and nitrate. IT was tedious:( but necessary.

The fish could have been sick in the store, having a q-tank is good for new aquisitions, that way you don't risk the other fish...usually they stay there for 14 days, so you are in the range of problems still being the fault of the store. there should be info on velvet and it's treatment, I think it is one of the more common ailments.

I think that swordtails are hardy, I kept them when I was a kid, and unknowledgable about fish tanks and they lasted a while. The fish should be fine ultimately, being of good health, but I am not sure what the mortality rate is for velvet or ich.

You might want to limit your feedings until you have lower ammonia. ONce every other day helped when my tank was haywire.

Benefitial bacteria needs to be attached to something before it can be a benefit. Perhaps puting it in as you said, caused it to work faster than if you tried to create your own, but you would have been better off getting either gravel or a chunk of filter media, putting it in a stocking/nylons and placing it in the tank or filter.

If you can handle the trouble of cycling for the next couple of weeks, you'll find everything becomes a lot more relaxed. Hang in there!
 

poysen

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Aug 16, 2005
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Thank you again, Lisa. I'm doing some asking around to friends with tanks. It's just so confusing trying to help her but not being sure enough of what her issue is to do it. I'm also looking around at info on velvet. I want to at least get her fixed up within a few days (treating her for her problem) and let things take their natural course thereafter.

I only did those drastic 50%+ changes when I had that huge spike in nitrites. I was desperate to lower it fast before they had issues. A friend thinks she might be suffering as a result from those levels. (They went from an acceptable level to over 5 in 2 days time.. it took 2 changes of almost all water and a 25% change following day to get the levels back down.)

I'm going to change out the water in a bit when my husband is up to keep our toddler away from it. He likes to get into that stuff out of curiosity but it's just a hassle lol.

Will stick with the 25% changes.. and keep testing and monitoring them all for illness. Hopefully within a few weeks max the tank will be established and all will be better for them.:)
 
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Holly9937

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Holly9937 said:
You need your amonia and nitrite to both be at or very close to 0. They are both very toxic and hard on the fish. You will need to do water changes, maybe more than once a day, to lower the levels.
Doing a 50% or more water change is not dangerous!!! It is good for the fish to have fresh water as long as the temp is the same and the ph is very close.

Also, I would not necessarily trust the LFS, just b/c they work there does not mean they know a whole lot more about fish than you do!! Keeping the amonia and nitrite at/very close to 0 is the best thing you can do since the tank is not cycled
 

poysen

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Aug 16, 2005
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Well, I've found some info on velvet. It looks bad really bad. If she has it and isn't treated soon it could be fatal in as little as a day.

I can't tell if it looks like 'gold dust' or not her black areas (where I can see it) look pale with a white coating on her. I shined a flashlight on her and I do see an orange shimmer on the black though that could be in her scale coloring. I've never looked at her with a flashlight until now. I do know this. Shimming is a sign of velvet. She's undoubtedly doing that and so is Rainbow, the other female swordtail (on a lesser scale than Sock) Rainbow appears to be in fine health scale wise.. she could just be in early stages too.

I think I'm going to go ahead and treat her for velvet. I think I'm sure enough to try it. I'd hate to hem-haw around and have her die on me in the meantime.:(

As a result I will have to do a 25% change as per the velvet medicine instructions. I will post her if her condition changes for the worse. God I hope it doesn't.

Thanks Holly. Will keep in mind chage as per the levels require.
 

poysen

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Aug 16, 2005
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Quick update. I medicated the tank last night around 9:30pm with fungus guard. The one female (that showed shimmying on a lesser scale) went into hiding almost all night. Came out twice for a few minutes, swam erratically and went back to hide.

She finally came out a little while ago, she ate fine and now seems normal. The other female that was shimmying worse is still doing the shimmy but she also is swimming with the other female swordtail normally. I called Tetra and expalined the situation to them, they think that the fungus guard is working and to do another dose tonight to help the other swordtail.

With any luck, she, too will turn around. :eek:
 
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