Ulcers and lazyness

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Eve

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Dec 21, 2005
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Ulcers and laziness

Hi, I have two goldfish, an orange comet and a white fantail, in a 10 gal tank and over the last month I've been having some problems. I checked all the params and all seem fine except the nitrate level (but due to the test kit I have, it's hard to tell exactly how high it is...it could be anywhere from 40-180 ppm). I just got a 29 gal tank, which I plan to move them to.

The problem started when I noticed my fish sitting in the bottom corner of the tank. The comet seemed more lethargic than the other, and what seemed like over night, it developed a cyst like ulcer. It's hard to explain: several scales protruded from its body, it was red underneath, and the scales stuck out to about the size of a pea. The water was getting really cloudy too and just after the cyst appeared I noticed my aqua clear power filter stopped running, so the water was polluted and unfiltered. It's possible the filter could have been malfunctioning for a week or two. To remedy I fixed the filter, did frequent water changes, put extra salt in the water, began adding stresscoat (instead of aquasafe), and I medicated them for over a week with melafix in the morning and a mild anti-parasite medicine at night. Prior to these issues I noticed slightly red (pinkish) streaks on their tails. They also have occasional fin splitting, but nothing major.

The ulcer cleared up and both fish seemed to be fine for the last week or two, but since my power filter clogged up previously, I've been keeping a close eye on it and Friday I noticed it was barely trickling out water. So I took it apart and changed some water. Several days ago I noticed my comet has another ulcerated skin lesion, but it's in a different spot on the other side or its body. It's longer, but not as inflamed and swollen. Can someone please tell me if they think the problems stem from the filter failing? Please give me any advice and help you possibly can. Also my comet has a kink in her tail, is that normal? She also has little black spots on her eyes.

One more thing, but about my fantail: I've noticed these black spots developing on his body (he does have some natural black spotting that looks like it's below his scales). At first there was just one or two, and now there seems to be more. He may have even had a couple when I got him. There's even one on his top fin. Two of the spots seemed to pop up quickly and both seem to be getting bigger. They They kind of look like they potrude from his body, but not much at all and they don't look like they hurt. They are all pretty small though, only mm. I've read about something called black spot disease, but there's not much information about it.

Thank you so much! Sorry this is so long.

Eve
 
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OrionGirl

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First, getting them into the bigger tank will help. The 10 was way too small, and without frequent cleaning and water changes, easy to pollute. Please give us the actual test values for ammonia, nitrites, and pH. You might want to have the water tested at your LFS to give you something better than 40-180 for nitrates, although even that indicates that more water changes are needed.

The ailments are all fairly non-specific. IME, this usually means that water quality issues are causing a more than one problem. The solution is to start changing more water, more often. Cleaning the filter out regularly to avoid any reductions in efficiency will also help.
 

Eve

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Dec 21, 2005
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Thank you very much for your reply.

I hope that the only problem is poor water quality since I know, for the most part, I can control this. I would have noticed my filter clogging up, but since the hood hides it I didn't even realize the problem until the cloudiness appeared as well as the pinkish streaks on their fins.

I generally do water changes 1-3 times per month depending on water contitions and the filter maitnence that's needed. Is this good? When they got sick I changed the water everyday for about a week and then every other day or two the following week.

I'll check the params later and get back to you. I'm considering buying a new testing kit. The one I have uses test tubes and chemicals, and it's hard to tell which color it matches the best on the card. I've heard there's strips you can just dip into some water: are there any you'd reccomend? Plus there is no LFS nearby. It's atleast 30 miles away.

Thanks again.

Eve
 

Hannys_Papa

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Aug 31, 2005
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If you dont mind i'd like to add my 2 cent. since there hasnt been another answer for a while.

OG gave you some good ideas already. Additionally i would like to mention that for goldfish (aka poop machines) tanks people generally suggest having "double filtration" - which means if you have a 50 gallon tank then have a filter designed for a 100G tank - or 2 filters for the 50.

In your case it will help the fish a lot to be moved to the bigger tank. And once you do that why not keep the filter you have now - and then add another one. You didnt mention the model you have now (AC mini/20?) but i think another AC50 would be a good choice for the 29. Then run them both and take advantage of the extra filtration. Its also good incase one gets clogged or malfunctions. Plus you can service one each week - and even when you replace filter media your bio colony wont die off.

I'd defenitely keep up the water changes while they are sick or seem to have problems. In a 10G with 2 of them and questionable water conditions i'd do 50% each day. The water changes really help to remove disease causing bacteria etc from the water - and the cleaner the water the easier for your fish to heal themselves. Even if ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrate low - another waterchange wont do any harm - only good and your fish will thank you.

Once you have them in the 29 i'd still do 50% each week (or if thats too much at a time 2 x 30%).

I'd also stay away from the test strips. It might seem like they are easier to read - but the accuracy of them is known to be horrible. In your case (nitrate anywheres between 40-180) i'd just do a few water changes untill there is no or hardly any colour change which fill indicate your close to 10-20 or less.
 

Eve

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Dec 21, 2005
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Old water into new tank?

Thanks HP!

The params are as follows: nitrite 0, ammonia 0, ph (not sure) with high range it was about 7.8-8 and with the reg. ph test it was 7.6. Like I mention above the nitratre level is somewhere between 40 and 160 (the shades of red I have to choose from are too similar). These are actually from a couple of weeks ago, but I'll get more acurate ones when I get a chance.

Now I'm working on setting up the 29 gallon tank and want to know if I should add some of the water from the 10 gal tank, even though my fish are having problems. Do you think it is bad water and that I shouldn't use it? What about the gravel? I've got to change out some of the water in the 10 gal tank anyway while I let the other one cycle and stabalize.

Thank you.

Eve
 

Hannys_Papa

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Aug 31, 2005
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I dont think the water will make much of a difference - you just want to make sure that when you transition the fish from one to the other tank that parameters are similar (kinda like what you do in the acclimation process when you bring one home from the fish store). So if you fill the new tank with tap water - then you could do 2 x 50% water changes within an hour or so in your 10G tank right before you move the fish - that way they get slowly used to the water they end up having in the 29. Of course make sure the temperature is the same - and dechlorinate. I am sure you know this but its easy to forget in the event of being busy with the new tank, moving the fish etc.

Your biocolony (ammonia converting bacteria) are mainly in your gravel and filter - not the water - so the water wont do much to cycle the new tank. So if you want to keep your gravel - then you can move that to the new tank. And just add more. Or if you maybe want a new look to the tank its fine to use all new gravel as the filter will still have most of the bacteria. Like i said - then you could add another filter and just watch for any spikes over the course of 1-2 weeks incase things got a little disturbed from the move.
 

Eve

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Dec 21, 2005
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I forgot to mention the aquaclear filter is for a 30 gal tank. Also a whisper power filter came with the new tank. I was planning on installing the whisper filter in the new tank and then transfering the aquaclear one just before I move the fish.

I just put the tank on 2 ft and 4 inch tall dresser stand thing and leveled it out by putting a piece of wood underneath one of the legs. I also put a peice of insulation between the top of the dresser and the tank. I was thinking about posting a picture to make sure it is an adequete peice of furniture to display the tank on. The top isn't completely level, but it's really close.

Thank you so much for all of your help!

Eve
 

anonapersona

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Mar 7, 2003
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Nitrate way too high!

The reason you can hardly tell the difference between 40ppm and 160 ppm is that both are way, way too high.

You need to step up on the water changes until you get the nitrates down to about 10ppm, then keep measuring daily and when it gets to 20ppm do a 50% water change. In fact, multiple water changes back to back would be a good idea.

Until you move the fish, start feeding less. A bit of food the size of a fish eyeball for each fish, no more. I know they beg, they are fish, they have such tiny fishy brains that they can't recall that you feed them every day at the same time, or that they just ate and are full. "Full" has no meaning to a goldfish! If more food shows up then the partly digested food just passes out the other end in whatever state of digestion it got to.

In the future, know that when the fish has red streaks in the tail that means high nitrates. When the fish sits on the floor, that means bad water.
 

Eve

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Dec 21, 2005
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Thank you so much, anonapersona. I now know why my poor little fish are having such bad problems. I feel so bad for them and maybe I neglected them just a little bit when I had finals, but I learned my lesson, poor little guys ): I changed some water a couple of hours ago and I'm going to change more right now. My poor orange comet's ulcer is getting worse. It's covering more body area and it's redder, almost like it's bleeding :(

Thanks for the red streak info. I've been trying to figure out what caused that for a few weeks now. The nitrates have always been really high. I think I slacked on changing their water for too long, but no longer than a month. Instead of carbon I have a ammonia reducer in the filter. I think it's time to change that though and put the carbon back in.

Thanks.
 

Eve

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Dec 21, 2005
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Picture of tank stand

Here's a picture of the empty tank and the stand it's on. Please let me know if it looks like a sturdy peice of furniture to hold a 29 gallon tank. It sits about 2 and a half feet tall. Oh yeah I still have to add the doors and another drawer, but I don't have them yet.

Thanks!

Fish tank and stand and Jayden 004.jpg
 
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