tank size issues ... long

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liv2padl

cichlidophile
Oct 30, 2005
2,686
0
0
north carolina
i've been seeing alot of posts lately in which people want to cram big fish in small tanks and when i'm suggestive of that being a poor idea, i've been told i'm wrong in more than a few cases. (i'm fairly new here so perhaps this issue has been ongoing for as long as AC has been here).

i'd like to take this opportunity to explain why cramming big fish into a too small tank is poor husbandry. fish load is much more than keeping ammonia levels down, oxygen levels high, pH stable and all the rest. it's more than having big filtration and changing lots of water. good husbandry is all about the fish, not the water. a variety of physiological, biological, metabolic and behavioural processes in fish are disrupted under crowded conditions. crowded conditions doesn't necessarily mean too many fish ... it can also be a too small tank for even a single fish.

just as you can tolerate being in a crowded car with the windows closed for awhile, fish can handle a crowded tank for awhile. but at some point it begins to negatively impact them in seriously harmful ways. we usually don't detect this until their immune systems are weakened and disease has taken hold. the problem is that by then, it's usually too late. fish maintained in tanks which are too small or in conditions which are too crowded, develop severe stress syndrome. these fish do not exhibit proper color, do not develop proper fin form, do not exhibit proper metabolic development, do not exhibit normal behaviour, do not develop proper musculature, do not develop properly functioning organ systems and as a result, slowly lose their inherant resistance to disease. this results in a significantly shortened lifespan and along the way, lots of diseases for which the poorly conditioned fish is a good target.

"hey, i kept a goldfish in a 5 gallon tank for 5 years and he was just fine". how many times have you heard that or similar. what these people don't understand is that the goldfish didn't die of old age. goldfish (and this is just an example) live for upwards of 20 years. having had one "survive" for 5 years is nothing to be proud of. arowana and Pacu are additional examples but there are plenty more. these fish grow to over 3 feet and need HUGE tanks. a 75 gallon tank is not huge. neither is a 150 gallon tank when it comes to such fish. experienced arowana keepers recommend aquariums with a footprint no smaller than 72x24 inches for 'mature' specimens and twice that for a fully grown fish.

you need to find out what the 'mature' size of a fish you're thinking of purchasing is going to be. if you don't have the proper tank size or don't plan on upgrading SOON (soon is not 3 years down the road), then don't buy the fish.

for some reason which i've never been able to understand, people treat fish in a manner they would never keep a dog or a cat. perhaps it's because you can't pet a fish and it doesn't sit in your lap. to me, ANY animal which you 'adopt' becomes a responsibility which dictates that you maintain it in a way that maximizes it's health and 'happiness'. that it lives to it's genetically predetermined age, that it remains healthy and that it lives in an environment which allows it to behave in a normal, stress free way. i don't understand why you'd keep a fish at all if you're not going to provide optimum conditions for it. there are so many fish out there to choose from ... why not pick those that you CAN provide a proper home for rather than going for that macho predatious fish and small dog eating machine just because it strikes you as "cool".

what is normal behaviour anyway? the interraction of a mixed community tank and/or the behaviour of a single species is one of the single most important factors to consider when selecting fish for your tank. you want the fish you're keeping to have the ability to exhibit "normal" and functional behaviour. abnormal behaviour results in stress. stress leads to disease. disease can lead to death. for example:

1. if species (A) does not get along with (is incompatible with) species (B), then these fish don't belong in the same tank no matter how few fish you have or how large the tank. "getting along" is based on the visual and behavioural Q's that each fish species is genetically programmed with. this is why African cichlids generally don't belong in the same tank with Central American cichlids. Africans don't "understand" Central American fish speak and this leads to behavioural problems and stress.

2. if species (A) has specific food or water chemistry requirements which are completely different from species (B), then these fish don't belong in the same tank no matter how large the tank is.

3. if species (A) is aggressive and defends a territory of 2 square feet, then you cannot expect to successfully keep more than one of these fish in a tank which is smaller than 2 square feet. convict cichlids are an excellent example of this ... this little fish aggressively defends territories of about two square feet give or take. if you have a tank which allows only that much room and no more, the convict will defend the entire tank to the detriment of any other fish (no matter how large it is) in that tank.

fish need room to swim without having the rest of the tanks inhabitants "in their face" continuously. think about your local lake or river --- the fish are free to inhabit whatever space suits them biologically. if it gets crowded by their standards, some will disperse and move to other areas where they again have the space they need to exhibit functional behaviour.

it's difficult to allow for that "space" in your tank -- the fish have no escape within the confines of your tank so it's up to you to insure that the fish have that space in the first place. if your tank "looks bare" .. it's probably just right.
 
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snakeskinner

AC Members
Dec 27, 2003
907
1
0
47
Oklahoma
www.okcaa.org
Yes, you are correct for the most part. However, defining stocking levels is an opinion, not a fact. Everyone has their own opinion, enter the disagreement. Where is the bible written centuries ago telling us what fish require how large of a tank? If you get down to it, every single one of us is keeping fish in too small of an environment. You cannot move the amazon into your home so how can you provide their natural environment. I'm not trying to say that you're wrong, just wanting to make the point that just because your advice is not taken does not mean you are right and they are wrong or vice versa, it only means you are not in agreement. I argue the overcrowding point myself and I'm guilty of it myself. We are working with a huge grey area here and defining right or wrong is tough. Compare the hobby with decades ago or even geographically. What was acceptable as stocking levels is nowhere near what it is today, at least in the US. Move to Japan and look at the typical hobbyist there and their tanksizes. They are very limited on space over there so they cram tons of fish into tiny tanks and do constant waterchanges to keep the fish "healthy". Are they doing it wrong? How are we doing it right? We are still putting the fish in a MUCH smaller environment than they were from no matter how big your tank is. Only in some public aquariums are there tanks of adequate size and not all of those are even close. Just something to consider next time you get into that heated arguement about what is the right way to do things. I know I'm doing stuff wrong but I work with what I have and do my best to give the fish as comfortable a life as I can. At least I've eliminated most of their predators..... Kyle
 

yourchoice

AC Members
Aug 6, 2006
653
0
0
Toronto
ya in nature fish have a place or area where they can call home.should be they same in a tank.in most cases species tanks are going to be the less stressful on the fish.
 

excuzzzeme

Stroke Survivor '05
Keep in mind that this is an open forum and as such advice is given that is indeed not sound. I don't think anyone here would ever tell you that you are wrong if you say a fish needs more room than what it is in. One of the biggest errors is that depth is not considered when housing a large fish. Too often I read of people recommending a 55 for an Oscar to which I heartily disagree.

Over-crowding is often chastised on this forum as is having too small a tank. At what point is the line drawn? It is a discriminatory value based on the experience of the person answering. Ideally fish should not be housed in a fake environment but that isn't going to happen. anymore than allowing a dog to run wild because it's forefathers ran wild a had a large range. You can't use partial logic on a single species and not apply is to others. If you are concerned over the keeping of fish, you should be equally be concerned over the keeping of other animals. Again, this would require drawing a pre-defined set of values that simply cant be done. Such being the case we can only hope to accommodate our wet-pets under a general guide that is colored in shades of gray and without well-defined boundaries.

As we use forums such as these to trade information, our care level offered to the fish increases. Thirty years ago I had way too many fish in a 10 gallon by today's standard. But by the standards then, I was considered to have an under-stocked tank.

The points you make are valid and realistic but unattainable by many in the hobby. Should we disallow others to participate because of it? It is a tough call. I have a single 12" fish in a 100 gallon tank at present and by the points brought up, that is too small of an environment. Should we then learn the range habits of a particular species and only keep fish that we are able to meet the range requirements of? I see it as a never-ending discourse as to what is acceptable and what isn't when taken to that extreme. We then must accept a general rule of what is attainable and in the best interest of the fish. At the same time we should heartily discourage the possible stunting due to ignorance and chastise those that choose to do so in spite of the information offered.

We can only hope to improve the hobby through learning and teaching what has been learned. Too bad that the learning process means making mistakes, sometimes fatal mistakes (for the fish).

It is a good thing to have people like you to speak up and remind us of our obligations to provide the best possible care to the hobby. Thanks for a great post!
 

chefjamesscott

beware the house tiger
May 28, 2008
1,185
0
36
56
Yes, you are correct for the most part. However, defining stocking levels is an opinion, not a fact. Everyone has their own opinion, enter the disagreement. Where is the bible written centuries ago telling us what fish require how large of a tank? If you get down to it, every single one of us is keeping fish in too small of an environment. You cannot move the amazon into your home so how can you provide their natural environment. I'm not trying to say that you're wrong, just wanting to make the point that just because your advice is not taken does not mean you are right and they are wrong or vice versa, it only means you are not in agreement. I argue the overcrowding point myself and I'm guilty of it myself. We are working with a huge grey area here and defining right or wrong is tough. Compare the hobby with decades ago or even geographically. What was acceptable as stocking levels is nowhere near what it is today, at least in the US. Move to Japan and look at the typical hobbyist there and their tanksizes. They are very limited on space over there so they cram tons of fish into tiny tanks and do constant waterchanges to keep the fish "healthy". Are they doing it wrong? How are we doing it right? We are still putting the fish in a MUCH smaller environment than they were from no matter how big your tank is. Only in some public aquariums are there tanks of adequate size and not all of those are even close. Just something to consider next time you get into that heated arguement about what is the right way to do things. I know I'm doing stuff wrong but I work with what I have and do my best to give the fish as comfortable a life as I can. At least I've eliminated most of their predators..... Kyle

this i say a big hearty amen brother

advice that is coming from constructive criticism with the sole desire being to better the other as a fish keeper is great and should be welcomed yet advice which comes from a condescending viewpoint of superiority is base and obnoxious and should be rejected

truly we are putting these fish in an environment much smaller than their natural habitat or one even farther when people go out an catch wild fish and place them in a tank and then the fish dies because it could not make the switch from wild to home aquatics and the people go mehhhhh so it died but who is to say the good or the bad of that i have my thoughts but i reserve to say them

truth be known we are all on a learning curve are we not

at any rate a good post with some great advice :headbang2:

i myself have a large tank or two that i have reserved only for one fish and a few neon for the very reasons you have made mention i am also in process of submitting plans to city to build my garage greenspace which will have a 7k gallon pond in it for my monster fish
 

Zaffy

Why would ******* be censored?
Jul 21, 2008
444
1
18
Canyon Country, Ca.
I agree that any fish we keep is in an environment that is too small. It's unavoidable except by not keeping fish. Obviously there are extremes, and people who don't know any better should be taught. But there is a huge gray area because nobody really knows for sure. For example, I've seen recommendations for keeping Senegal Bichir, Polypterus senegalus, in everything from a 20g to "Nothing less than 180g."

The fact is, we are keeping fish for our own entertainment and/or profit. So make peace with you own conscious however you have to. But please, research the fish you want to keep and give them the best home that you can. If you can't provide the fish a good home then don't get it.
 

dogyluver

AC Members
Jun 20, 2008
89
0
0
Ohio
You can never, ever have too big of a tank. Nothing is worse than having too crowding of an overstocked, undersized tank. Too bad we don't have animal rescue or a humane society for fish. Unforunately, most pet shops don't educate the consumer purchasing the fish. They usually post on the tanks minium tank size and not the nessessary tank size for the adult fish. They all too often put clown laoches and plecosomus in 20 gallon tanks. And that gives the consumer in a hurry the wrong idea. And the person keeping a gold in a 5 gallon should not have a pet of any kind
 
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