plant substrate questions

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plah831

plah831

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Apr 29, 2006
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i am thinking of getting pure laterite in my densely planted 10 gal dwarf puffer tank because the plants in there have not been able to form roots. the plants that have presented a problem are narrowleaf chainsword, red ludwigia, red longleaf Rotala, and Cabomba. their leaves look fine, but there are no roots, so they keep popping out of the gravel. the plant weights have led to rotting due to the bunching of the stems.

i don't want plant-specific substrates other than pure laterite because they either contain metals that could harm my ghost shrimp, or have pH buffering properties. i am planning on "seeding" the laterite with Flourish tabs, instead of having the substrate leach all kinds of metals and other stuff long-term.

my questions are:
-should i put the laterite under my gravel (i prefer the look of the river bed gravel), and push my plants all the way into the laterite layer so that their roots can take hold?

-how deep should the laterite layer be? the label says they recommend 1 oz of laterite per gallon.

-will dosing the water allow some nutrients to take hold in the laterite? in other words, should i continue with root tabs even after the roots grow to a satisfactory level?

-how far down should i put the tabs? i tried some root tabs in the gravel but it just ended up filling my tank with ammonia so i don't want to repeat this fiasco by putting the root tabs too shallow. i'm assuming the laterite will hold onto the nutrients better and prevent leaching into the water column.

Thanks in advance for your help, and for reading a long post :)
 
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phanmc

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1. You'll can mix the laterite with an inch of gravel to form the bottom layer or use just laterite for the bottom layer for a very iron enriched substrate. Then cover it with 2+ inches of gravel. A small amount of peat under the top layer is also a good idea.

2. Liquid fertilization stays mostly in the water column and does not absorb into the substrate. Fish waste will fall between the cracks of the gravel and decompose, forming more nutrients for roots. Whether you'll need to use fert tabs after the initial phase is largely dependent on the conditions of the tank. Some people don't use them at all and others find continued usage beneficial.

3. Fert tabs should be buried deeply into the substrate, preferably all the way to the bottom.
 
plah831

plah831

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why the peat under the gravel?

also, how much should i rinse the laterite (i've heard it's very dusty)?
 
virjee

virjee

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Feb 5, 2006
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Laterite as a base substrate

I would recommend against laterite as its root growth properties is negligable. Flourish in 25 lb bags is the best route. You need about two inches of Flourish, then 1-2 inches of gravel. The instructions read 1 bag per 10 gallons of water, but you must base the amount of Flourish per square inches of surface. My 55-gallon took 3 25-pound bags. You can get it anywhere from 21.99 per bag up to $24.99 per bag. If you absolutely insist on Laterite, then be sure to use the Flourish tabs near your swords, especially. My heavily planted tank is pure heaven using the Flourish substrate. Try it, you'll like it! :clap:
 
plah831

plah831

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thanks, virjee. i'm afraid to use the other stuff because they have properties that may not be good for my shrimps (like added metals, especially copper and pH buffering stuff).
 
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phanmc

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As the peat decays, it forms acids which converts the iron in laterite to a more accessible form for plants.

Flourite is similar to laterite, in that both substrate a high in iron. The difference in Flourite is that it's a baked clay substrate and laterite is not, and is less likely to break apart. The other difference is Flourite is meant to be the entire substrate and not an additive like laterite which needs to be mixed with gravel. Both are meant to provide a long term source of iron for plants and whether one is better than the other is questionable.
 
virjee

virjee

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Flourish substrate safety

I have four algae eating shrimp, and more fish that I really should (way too addicted, and end of having to give away fish eventually :sad:

I have not had a death in almost a year. Fish are healthy as heck (give them frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp, kind of a mixed bag of goodies that is the freezer section at Petsmart, along with high quality flake food, pellets, etc). Not to mention my plants are thriving beyond belief - must trim back, pick off dead stuff, separate plants, etc. Read up on Flourish at Seachem's website or ask the opinion of the best LFS in your area.

Good luck and have fun! :hi:
 
plah831

plah831

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so Seachem Flourite doesn't add the extra metals? are they existent in laterite as well? i looked up flourite (black and red) on their website and saw the breakdown with copper and all this other stuff. if Flourite is easier to deal with than laterite and comparable in terms of metal composition, then i may just spend the extra and go with Flourite.

virjee, i think you meant Flourite and not Flourish, right? I already use Flourish, but at half doses so as not to harm my shrimp (although the copper level is still very low 0.0001%, but copper builds up if plants don't use it).

i already add chelated (or whichever is more bio-available) iron with Flourish Iron. do you think the peat is still necesary? i don't usually go for plants that are heavy root feeders. i just want SOME roots to grow so that the stem plants don't keep coming out of the gravel.

thanks again for all your help!
 
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phanmc

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Flourite is clay and is likely to have minute amounts of other minerals in addition to iron, the same can be said for laterite. I highly doubt that any mineral present in Flourite would be in a quantity that's hazardous to your shrimps.

Flourish Iron will be absorbed mainly through the plant leaves, it's benefits to the substrate is minimal.

Peat is not necessary. Acids will also form when fish waste and other organics begin to decay, peat will just speed up the process.
 
plah831

plah831

Am I mod enough?
Apr 29, 2006
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OK, thanks! I think I'll stick with the plain laterite, then, and layer it under some gravel as originally planned. I'll probably skip out on the peat, then, but keep it in mind for future projects.

Thanks again, phanmc and virjee!
 
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