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  1. #11
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    I want to cycle another small tank I have. My question is, if I use Method 1, can I use a dead fish rather than a prawn or shrimp?





  2. #12
    Its ALWAYS Ashes2Ashes Fault! Reefscape's Avatar
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    yes, you can use anything that is going to de-compose and generate an ammonia source...

    Niko
    Quote Originally Posted by neoprodigy View Post
    its always Niko's Fault!... Thanks Niko!



  3. #13
    Junior Member bumwrok's Avatar
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    I personally have never cycled a tank based on the advice of a Marine professor at UF. Basically I purchased a large amount of really good (cured) live rock (saved money for a long time) a couple of scoops from the bottom of the live rock tank, and some live sand to make a good sand bed. The next day I loaded the tank with fish, mostly because i chose aggressive species (damsels, clown, psuedochromis), and also to establish the bioload quickly to maintain the bacteria level in both the sand and liverock. I have never had a problem or lost any life and great water quality. I have done this 3 times and for other people with the same result so I probably didn't just get lucky. This method is a lot of expense at one time so i wouldn't recommend it to everyone, but if you can afford it do it.
    20g Long
    175w 10k MH
    28w actinic t5's
    AC500 fuge
    Taam Rio Nano Skimmer
    Phosban Reactor
    ~30lbs various live rock
    Gold band maroon clown, various LPS and softies.



  4. #14
    Senior Member WeeNe858's Avatar
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    yeah bumrock.. thats the fastest way to cycle a tank.. use all precured and live stuff in the tank and add in some fishes a day after.... the bacteria currently on the rocks and sand will take care of the bioload and begin to multipy

    same thing with a freshwater tank.. the live rock is biomedia, similar to a filter sponge... if you move the sponge to a new tank the tank is technically cycled and able to handle livestock.. just not a full load yet.



  5. #15
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    Cycle, and then ...Cycle

    Interesting discussion so far - may I raise a few points:
    1. The success of using a frozen food prawn or shrimp is largly due to the bacteria present inside the frozen animal. Bacteria multiply rapidly, and you only need a few to start off with. You do need the right type, though, and what better way of introducing real MARINE bacteria than using that which is inside the gut of a marine animal. It is NOT a good idea to use a dead fresh water fish, as it's gut would not have the right type of bacteria. It is also not a good idea to use a dead sea water fish, especially if it died in someone else's tank, as it could introduce a variety of diseases to the new tank.
    2. These "speed cycle" methods are really rubbish, if I may be so rude. Anyone who really understands the process in a marine reef tank will agree (I hope...) that a cycle is only "complete" once the tank has completely stabilised - INCLUDING the stabilisation of the nitrate level, which takes at least 3-4 weeks longer than the simple ammonia - nitrite - nitrate cycle. The nitrate reducing anoxic bacteria only start to multiply once there is a sufficient source of food (nitrate), and a sufficiently large anoxic substrate, and both these processes take time to develop.
    3. A "Cycle" MUST be large enough to build up a sufficiently large amount of bacteria to handle the total bio load once the fish are introduced to the tank, without the possibility of a secondary ammonia spike occuring. To achieve this, the initial level of "pollutant", be it skimmate, a dead shrimp, or neat ammonia, must be large enough (and be sustained for long enough), to allow for the necessary bacterial build up. A simple "over night" cycle just cannot achieve this goal.
    Hennie



  6. #16
    Senior Member noskimmer's Avatar
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    I have to add something here.. Hennie has some very valid points, as do the other people, but I think that something quite important has been missed, and this is water volume.

    I for one admire the guys that run nano's successfully, I myself could not (or am too lazy to do so), as changes occur very quickly, now, in a non cycled tank that is say 200 Gallons, with one fish without any cycle, then the shear volume of water will (almost) guarantee success, as the percentage of toxins (ammonia, nitrite etc) is a measurement of ppm (and we have lots of millions), however, this could not be achieved (well almost) in a 20 gallon tank, as mr. fish will release the same amount of waste in both scenario's.

    So in summary, I think that a tank cycle involves the establishment of beneficial bacteria at all stages, however toxicity to marine annimals will always be based on ppm. So the new guys, who generally start with small tanks, no quick cycle trick (bad wording, but you know what I mean), as the odds are stacked up against you from the very beginning. Jojo22 summarized it very well on page two with her "Rant" go back and read it.
    Gordon the Goby, 6 years and can't keep up with the pods and no water change in.... hmmm what was the last count... 07-01-2007... (DD-MM-YYYY)

    Oh... Did I mention that I don't skim?



  7. #17
    bicolor anglefish-one of my favs Marcus Fenix's Avatar
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    cycling with a dead shrimp is new to me. back in the day, Damsels were the thing to use. add a couple of damsels and add some Cycle bacteria to help kickstart the cycle.

    would it be the same way with a dead shrimp? add the shrimp, then add some Cycle?

    thanx



  8. #18
    Its ALWAYS Ashes2Ashes Fault! Reefscape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Fenix View Post
    cycling with a dead shrimp is new to me. back in the day, Damsels were the thing to use. add a couple of damsels and add some Cycle bacteria to help kickstart the cycle.

    would it be the same way with a dead shrimp? add the shrimp, then add some Cycle?

    thanx
    Hiya Marcus..

    All you simply need to do is add the raw shrimp or prawn, wrapped in a very fine mesh bag or material to contain the particles when it breaks up...

    That is it, leave it in the tank, let it decay and produce ammonia..Simply remove the package when ammonia has peaked...

    This is about one of the most natural ways possible, along with using partially cured live rock...No additives or chemicals are required as mother nature will do what she does best....

    Niko
    Quote Originally Posted by neoprodigy View Post
    its always Niko's Fault!... Thanks Niko!



  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by atnixon View Post
    ...This is about one of the most natural ways possible, along with using partially cured live rock...No additives or chemicals are required as mother nature will do what she does best....
    Quite right. The reason for not needing Cycle or similar is that the frozen prawn/shrimp still contain viable (live) marine strain bacteria in it's gut. You are thus not only adding the food to jump start the bacterial population, you are also adding a "starter culture" of bacteria.



  10. #20
    bicolor anglefish-one of my favs Marcus Fenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atnixon View Post
    Hiya Marcus..

    All you simply need to do is add the raw shrimp or prawn, wrapped in a very fine mesh bag or material to contain the particles when it breaks up...

    That is it, leave it in the tank, let it decay and produce ammonia..Simply remove the package when ammonia has peaked...

    This is about one of the most natural ways possible, along with using partially cured live rock...No additives or chemicals are required as mother nature will do what she does best....

    Niko
    thanx Niko.

    I was checking out the shrimp at the local market. there was cooked or uncooked. hahahha
    cooked are cleaner. uncooked will do fine
    Last edited by Marcus Fenix; 07-25-2007 at 4:17 PM.



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