Why are my Goldfish Dying??

  • Get the NEW AquariaCentral iOS app --> http://itunes.apple.com/app/id1227181058 // Android version will be out soon!

Donna

Registered Member
Apr 19, 2003
3
0
0
Minnesota
Visit site
I apologize in advance for this "lengthy" post! I have a 55-gallon goldfish aquarium that has been set-up for about 5 or 6 years. I have always been confused about our water. We live in a rural area, so our only water source is "well water". I frequently see posts about tap water, but it appears you are only talking about city water. When I first started, I had a 20-gallon tank and I purchased water from my LFS. When the fish store closed, I bought bottled spring water. Then when I decided that I wanted the 55 gallon, it was no longer practical to drag home water. The new LFS guy told me that I should be able to use our well water, so I did. The problem with that is that our hard water bypasses the water heater, so we only have cold hard water. I used to fill large Culligan bottles and let them set for a few days for the water to warm up to match the tank water. After about a year of this method, I injured my back and could no longer handle these large bottles. I was about to give up fish keeping all together, when I read about the Python Water Changer. I asked my LFS if I could use water cycled through our water softener for the fish. It seemed odd to me that this would be O.K., but I have been doing it for at least a year and a half. My fished seemed to do very well, but for the last 6 months I have had a lot of death. The LFS guy said that when I was buying bottled water that it was deinonized, which in turn stripped the water of a lot of minerals that goldfish need in order to survive. He then suggested adding electrolytes which seemed to help. I didn't seem to have a lot of problems when using the hard water, but I constantly had to clean brown algae from the plastic plants and ornaments. Now that I am using softened water, I don't have any brown algae, but I am constantly fighting green algae. So I asked the LFS why green algae has become such a problem when I never had it before. Then he tells me to use a phosphate remover in the filter and to change my light bulbs. That slowed it down, but I still have to use AlgaeFix about every 3 or 4 days to keep it under control. I have repeatedly tested the aquarium water for pH, ammonia, GH, KH, nitrate, and nitrites. All of the tests are within safe limits. I have never had more than 4 or 5 fish in this tank, so ammonia or overcrowding is not the problem. I do weekly water changes of about 25% to 35%. I have an Emperor 400 filter and I use StressCoat, Amquel Detoxifier, Electrolytes, pH Adjuster, and Algaefix. I do use aquarium salt to a low extent, because I don't know how much salt is already in the water because of the softener. I know that I don't overfeed. It seems I can't keep my fish alive anymore. Recently, the one that lastest the longest was for 4 months. When they get sick, they begin by flashing a lot and then they lay sideways on the bottom gasping, with their gills pumping profusely. Then they try to bury themselves in the plants and ornaments. By this point, I usually euthenize them by freezing because it is too painful to watch them suffer. It seems to me that these symptoms represent a toxicity in the water, but again, the water tests are fine and it only happens to one fish at a time. The others appear healthy. I have stopped replacing the ones that have died and now I am down to only one fish until I figure this out. Is my water softener killing my fish with some chemical that I'm not aware of? Is the salt in water softeners toxic to fish? Can I try using half hard water and half soft water for water changes? I am at the end of my rope and I would really appreciate any advise that anyone can give. After years of searching, I came across this site today. It is the first one that I have seen that I am completely impressed with. You all seem to be experts and God knows I need an EXPERT! Thank you.
:confused:
 

Pufferpunk

AC Members
Mar 22, 2002
3,042
0
0
64
Chicago
www.thepufferforum.com
Real Name
Jeni
Goldfish are pretty adaptable to water hardness, I don't think this is your problem. I had a hard time keeping my goldfish alove for more than a few years (I had beautiful calico orandas). I found out the trick to goldfish keeping is 90% water changes every week. There is an 85 year old man on another site that has been keeping fish for 75 years. He has taught me sooooooooo much. This is one of his musts.
 

MonoSebaelover

Anableps
Apr 20, 2001
1,410
0
0
Phoenix, AZ
www.shiredalefarm.com
What temp are they at and does it fluctuate throughout the day? I'm sure you know but goldfish like it 74 and below. We have an outdoor pond that we got 10 years ago when the house was built and some friends dumped in 50 feeders. 10 years later we still have 8 of them (we gave 4 to friends) and others, most didn't make the first week, the rest didn't make the winter. They still breed regularily every spring and are in great health. I can't really think of much else than temp. You also might want to add another Emperor filter or a powerhead for some added water movement cause generally one Emperor won't give enough for a 55. I have a 55 that has two Emperor 400's. Hope this helps and hope you have better luck in the very near future!
 

wetmanNY

AC Members
The algicide you are using, called "Algae Fix," is polyquat, very toxic to fish and with a long life. Read a little about Polyquat at www.skepticalaquarist.com under Algae/Problems. Click on "algicides."

Repeated use of this is the confines of an aquarium is killing your fish. You shouldn't really be putting it down your drain either.

Do a couple of major water changes.

You don't need to buy electrolytes. Half hard water and half softened water has plenty of electrolytes. There's plenty of salt already in your softened water (I have a hunch you don't use potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride). No reason to actually add it to your water.

Why are you adding those other bottled ingredients?

Has your wellwater been tested (not by the guys at the lfs-- a real test)? You should find out what your carbonate hardness ("KH") and your general hardness ("GH") are. Wellwater may arrive seriously depleted of oxygen and high or low in carbon dioxide. The one affects the fish directly. The other affects the pH.

Hope this helps.
 

dar

Registered Member
Mar 18, 2003
4
0
0
Visit site
I agree - in my (albiet limited) experience, I've found that chemicals often complicate matters.

BTW you may want to seriously consider getting your water tested, not only for the sake of your goldfish but also for our own sake - I know somebody who recently found out that they and their family had arsenic poisoning from wellwater contamination.
 

Donna

Registered Member
Apr 19, 2003
3
0
0
Minnesota
Visit site
All of your responses are great and I appreciate your help more than I can say!

I have done more research based on your suggestions and this is what my plan of action is. We have had our water professionally tested several times and I know that it is very safe for human consumption. This is what confused me about the problems I have had with the fish. I have always been told that if people can drink it, fish can live in it.

I should have been more skeptical about all the additives that I am using. I think that is probably my biggest problem. I am definitely going to stop using the Amquel Detoxifier and the AlgaeFix. I have found on chemistry sites that AlgaeFix should not be used in aquariums and only sparingly in outdoor ponds. I believe now that it can be toxic to fish under certain conditions. Also, using the Amquel Detoxifier is overkill. I went overboard trying to eliminate ammonia. My nitrate level is probably a little high, running at about 10-20 ppm. The test kit says nitrates are O.K. up to 40 ppm, but the box also says that high levels of nitrate can cause algae blooms. I know that I never had green algae until I started using softened water. I am going to do about 3 major water changes of about 50 to 60% with a half and half mix of well water and softened water. Sorry, but a 90% change scares me! Also, I think that the 50-50 mix will be less of a shock to my sole-surviving fish. Hopefully, this alone should aid in the control of the algae and lower nitrates.

The idea of buying small fish also sounded extremely logical and one that I hadn't considered before. I don't believe that water temperature is a problem since it is consistently about 72-73 degrees.

Unquestionably, I think that I have been a victim of my LFS's advice. Every time I asked for help, they convinced me to buy another product to add to the water. Clearly, this is what keeps them in business and I was too gullible. I have always been a little skeptical about believing them because when you think about; they make money by selling fish and chemicals. If everybody used fewer chemicals and if fish lived forever, they would be out of business in a heartbeat. I feel a little like a moron because I was trusting enough to listen to them. They always sound so positive about their solutions and they are always so quick to fix everything with ANOTHER chemical.

Again, I am so thankful for your unbiased knowledge and suggestions. If my conclusions still sound stupid, please don't hesitate to respond and let me know.

You guys are GREAT!!

Donna
 

Sumpin'fishy

Humble Disciple of Jesus Christ
Oct 16, 2002
673
0
0
48
Savannah, GA
If I were in your shoes, I'd use the hard water (or well water mixed with the hard water 50/50) and slowly acclimate the fish to it. If it's treated water (chlorine/chloramine) I would use the Amquel Detox to get rid of it. Only treat the water with the chlorine. The Amquel is pretty good stuff and it's not what you've been having problems with. I use that or Seachem's PRIME (best, IMO). Don't use any kind of algaecides (sp?) ever! You don't need to add any salt, minerals, or electrolytes to your water. Your fish will do fine if everything else is OK. I would stick with 50% water changes for now, especially until the fish acclimate to the new water chemistry. Let them relax and get used to some clean water without all those meds/chems.

If you don't have live plants, and even if you do -to a lesser extent, you WILL have to battle algae of some sort! Your problem is that something in your setup (maybe several things) are making conditions favorable to whatever type of algae you are currently fighting. You may have plenty of phosphates in your water. (Several people in planted forum have this problem). To me it isn't worth the chemicals/ Chemical removers to get this problem under control. It's better to add plants!!! Always!

With all the testing/analyzing/chemicals you've been messing with for a few years now, I'm sure you'd have no problem addapting to fertilizing some plants! Fill your tank with plenty of fast growing plants (do research), wait 2 to 4 weeks for them to acclimate and establish themselves, then start dosing ferts (slowly) Keep up with testing your water for certain nutrients and adjust accordingly. You can learn more in the plants forum. I'm just giving you a general idea.
 

avoxo

FORE!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 25, 2003
164
0
0
53
North Providence, RI
Visit site
Hi Donna, I agree with what everyone says but here is my 2 cents. The tank sounds like it is over crowded. Goldfish in the 1-3 inch size need about 10 gallons of water per fish, as they grow they are going to need more lots more. At least 20 gallons per fish if they are in the 4-6 inch range, more, as they get bigger.

Have you introduced any new guys to the tank? Maybe the thaw in your area has put some kind of chemical in your well water. Here are a couple of web sites that might help you.
http://www.koivet.com/gf_page8.html
http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/puregold/disease/disease.htm

Avoxo
 

Donna

Registered Member
Apr 19, 2003
3
0
0
Minnesota
Visit site
I know what killed my Goldfish!!

I did three 50% water changes (every other day) with the hard cold well water. I used just enough softened hot water to bring the mix to the correct temperature. The ONLY chemical I added was StressCoat. The first four days, the water was sort of cloudy; and on the fifth day, it turned absolutely crystal clear. The one fish I have is now eating, active, and appears to be perfectly happy and healthy.

I am convinced that AlgaeFix was the killer. Thanks to everyone who contributed and posted advice!!
 
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store