New Tank, Bio-spira, Ich, Clown Loaches

pedzola

pedzola

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Aug 26, 2005
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Complicated situation. Bits of which have shown up in other threads. I'd like to consolidate here.

Here is the series of events, I will try to keep brief:

2/18 - New 75g tank set up, filter running, temperature correct (78F). PH 7.0, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate all 0. Water initially treated w/Aquasafe and Neutral Regulator to lower PH somewhat (from 7.4).

2/21 - added 3oz (90g) dose of bio-spira + new fish from 2 diff LFS. 2 yoyo loaches + 15 cherry barbs from store A, and 4 clown loaches from store B.

2/22 - Ammonia .25-.5 Fish look good. Eating, swimming, healthy.

2/23 - Ammonia .5-1.0 (cause for concern) Fish still look good.

Today - Ammonia still .5-1.0. Nitrites 0. 30-40%(?) water change. (PH still 7.0 post-change). Add dose of Prime for whole tank. Also add second dose of bio-spira. Finally, add my year-old clowns (3) and few-month-old yoyos (2).

This is where it gets complicated.

I wanted to add the other clowns & yoyos in order to have "full load of fish" as per directions on bio-spira. Thinking all *new* fish looked healthy and were from trustworthy LFS that I had never gotten diseases from in the past.

AFTER acclimating and adding my clowns & yoyo's I see 3 out of 4 of the new clowns have ich all over them. (DOH!)

Bio-spira says don't use w/antibiotics, and don't change water for 48 hours. So I'm like ok... wtf do I do about the ich? I read on loach forum to crank the heat and add salt instead of using meds.

I go to LFS. Guy says LOWER temp instead of raising it. Also recommends salt in lieu of RidIch or other med (due to BioSpira).

So I bought the salt. Haven't added it yet. My tank is currently warming up a few degrees (clowns like it hot).



So thats where I'm at. Can anyone make any recommendations here? Keeping my fingers crossed that the Bio-Spira will take hold this time. Also dumped in a gooped up filter cartridge from other tank, hoping to help a bit.

So has anyone had luck treating clowns w/salt and heat? Or salt and cold? Or somehtin else? Or is ich medicine safe to use w/bio-spira? Or what? Am I on the right track or am I going to kill my fishes? :<

Is Ich going to spread to all the other fish or stay on the clowns? (all the barbs and the 2 yoyos look fine).

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Thanks for any help or guidance u can provide me. I will add the salt later on today. Maybe onle 1-1.5tsp per gallon instead of the 2.75tsp/gal recommended on the loach forum. (Does that seem like a lot of salt to anyone else?)

Thanks.
 
I'm also going through ich with a brand new stock of fish after my fishless cycle. Have you read the article in the article forum on ich? Its very good. I think the guys said lower the temp since that will slow down the life cycle but during treatment you want to speed up the lifecycle as the salt will kill them in the free-swimming stage before they find a host. You want them to get to this stage as quickly as possible until there are none left. So raising the temperature for treatment is good. The article recommends 2tsp/g.

I have to do less because I have inverts, plants, and frogs - oh my. I also thought 2tsp/g sounded like a lot of salt! But it is the recommendation. I"ll probably do 1tbs/5g. Not sure yet. I start when I get home.
 
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yeah... I will dot he salt. =| I asked the guy at the pet store if the salt would bother the fish, and he said it actually "calms" them. In other words, it's the opposite of stress for the fish. lol

I dunno if you can "calm" a fish down... but in any case they become less stressed with salt. Or thats what he said anyway. So we'll see.

If I were a fish any my water suddenly turned salty I'd prolly freak out a lil, I dunno! :soda:
 
Evidently it improves their gill function and slime coat. So in a decent dose it would perhaps calm, especially if their itchy with ich. I know..I've been having trouble grasping the idea too...I mean fresh water and brakish type water seems so different but for short periods of time it will be fine for the fish.
 
So here's a good question -

If I put in a couple tsp of salt per gallon... when should I change the water? According to bio-spira directions I shouldn'tb e changing any water for 2 days. Is 2 days of salt w/no water changes gonna hurt the fish?
 
I think in the article it says to do normal weekly water changes and for every gallon you remove you add back that much salt to keep the dose up. I"m not sure how salt will effect biospira. You are also supposed to premix teh salt and add it slowly to allow the fish to adjust to teh salinity. I'll probably take all evening with it since I don't have a siphon.
 
Keep your tank temperature at 78-79*, don't raise or lower it. That's the optimum for the bacteria. Raising the temp just speeds up the ich cycle. Worry about that after your tank cycles.

Just add the salt 1-2 teaspoons per gallon and hopefully it won't interfer with the Bio Spira. Meds will, salt probably won't. Worry about the cycle, not the ich right now.

If you have to change the water, make sure you change as exact to ½ the water -- not the tank size, the volume of water -- as you can. Take a tape measure, start at the top of the substrate and measure up the side of the tank. Find the half-way mark and mark that with a crayon or something. That should be close to the volume.

If you have to do a waterchange to get ammonia/nitrites down, make sure the new water you add has salt added to replace that which you took out.

Roan
 
I have treated my entire 180g tank, inculding loaches, because 3 tetras had what may/maynot have been a few ich spots. Keep the temp at 86 for 14 days. Used salt to taste :joke: , 2teaspoons per gallon. Did my routine friday water change of 50%, and added salt to replace. My clown loaches never showed signs of ich, but I was not willing to risk an outbreak. Everyone made it through fine, no loss of life!
 
pedzola said:
Thanks for any help or guidance u can provide me. I will add the salt later on today. Maybe onle 1-1.5tsp per gallon instead of the 2.75tsp/gal recommended on the loach forum. (Does that seem like a lot of salt to anyone else?)Thanks.
Click to expand...

Great advise from Roan, as usual, and budrecki, so I won't add anything except to ease your mind a bit here. The initial addition of salt seems like a lot because it’s for the whole tank. But when you mix up fresh make-up water for a water change (just containing, say, 2 tsp per gallon), taste it. You will find yourself hard pressed to find it salty at all.
 
Cool, so....

I was over at the 'rents place this afternoon attending to the tank.

I picked up some "doc wellfish" aquarium salt on the way.

Unfortunately I didn't get to read Roan's post beforehand... I turned the temp up to about 80-82. Hope that doesn't mess w/the Bio-Spira? Think I should go back there tonight and turn it down? Unfortunately it's a half hour drive.

;(

So.. I added some salt. I read the box and it said 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. So I figured I'd start w/that. I measured a tablespoon to be about exactly 3 teaspoons, so in case I wanna increase the dosage later I have a conversion factor....

I added about 10 tablespoons. (50gallons of treatment according to the box). According to what ppl are saying here thats not nearly enough though. Seemed like a lot of salt so I didn't wanna overdo it. Figured I'd add another 10 tablespoons tomorrow.

20 tablespoons = 60 teaspoons. So for a 75 gallon tank people are saying I need somewhere between 75 - 150 teaspoons... I dunno... ? lol maybe tomorrow I bring it up to the equivalent of 75 teaspoons.

And turn the temp down I guess. *shrug*

Did I mess up?

Fish are swimmin around and seemed happy. About 5-6 hours after adding 2nd dose of biospira my nitrate and nitrite are still 0, and ammonia (after water change) still looks like its about .5


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