Mafia 100-The Witches Return-The Game

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[AC] Hammerhead 991

'tis a fair court...
Mar 20, 2008
0
0
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ACville
[AC] RICKETS;2751810 said:
Alright. Thanks, Hammer.

Incidentally, I appreciate your efforts to coordinate the town like this. Still wish you hadn't come out just yet, but this does allow us all to talk more openly.
That was the other reason to do it. It seems there's a good chance I'll be the hit victim tonight, so just in case the coin doesn't flip my way, the town has a chance for some real solidarity.
 

[AC] Tree_Hugger

There is unrest in the forest
Mar 4, 2008
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ACville
[AC] RICKETS;2751737 said:
....

Wiz was high priest and while he was scum I still believe he played with limited time. The very first game-related post was from Wiz where he parked a random vote on Chup and disappeared for the rest of the day.

I don't imagine Wiz as evil high scum priest would have parked his vote like that on a fellow teammate, knowing he would not return for a long time and would not be in contact with the scumden while he gone. Mild distancing from a scummate from the very git-go would have required a bit more finesse in the game than I believe Wiz is known for. Wiz is anything but subtle when it comes to mafia.

I'll admit this is playing the odds, somewhat, but this small detail gives us a better-than-average chance that Chup is innocent. Anyway It's enough for me to lean Chup that way for now. And if that is true, it follows we should examine others who've been pointing us against Chup. Glancing through the N1 and N2 vote tally the names which stick out the most other than Wiz are Nemesis and Doom.

Day 1 - Wiz placed the first game vote on Chup and left it there. Day 2 - Nemesis held their vote on Chup until they were the last to (reluctantly) switch their vote to Wizard. Doom voted Chup.

...
I do not think we can come to any conclusions on how active Wiz was in the scum den. I also have Nemesis leaning innocent. I am not sure about Doom any more. I just can't imagine they would be a witch and hanging in there even after it was clear Wiz was going to get burned, knowing Wiz would flip evil. I think Doom had the best interest for the town. Many times, the town can lose a whole day based on a "gut" feeling. I personally wish Doom would vote earlier, I think waiting until less than two hours before nightfall is very anti-town. Even more when they are so active. If forced right now in a choice, I would have Doom leaning innocent.
 

[AC] Hammerhead 991

'tis a fair court...
Mar 20, 2008
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ACville
I can't clear up how active Wiz is in the scum den, but I can confirm that he's still in there plotting with them. G confirmed that for us.
 

[AC] xx_Nemesis_xx

Mafia Goddess
Mar 6, 2008
1
0
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ACville, Greece
LOL this is quite funny I was about to jump onto Wing myself then I saw HH's recent posting.

Like others I do actually wish you had not done that HH - I don't think you had to. However, you have played cleverly so far and I have something of a hope that you have also done something clever in coming out.

Anyway here is the post I was putting together until I came upon that recent development :

Me questioning Chupa :-

[AC] xx_Nemesis_xx;2751554 said:
Chupa.

Are you saying you see Tree as a good suspect at this time ? Are you really saying that ?

*nemesis re-reads*

Yes you are !

So, Tree being left in a tie for the lynch on Day 1, then jumping onto the head witch with gusto and extra relish, that was all part of a cunning plan ?

Is that what you're saying ?

Chupa ?

Really ?
Wing Nut cosies up - I was intending to say that this really put my hackles up and made me very uneasy with Wing Nut. He's basically just taking my post and riding it :-

[AC] wing nut;2751602 said:
I vote to burn Chupa at the stake.


His suspect list doesn't remotely fit anyone elses, if my post was defending Wiz then his was professing love for Wiz. Hey Chupa did Wiz pay you up front for your attorney fee? I can't say I agre much at all with any of his posts.
Doomsday asks a good question :-

[AC] Doomsday998;2751621 said:
So can I even ask you to point to the posts of Chup's that make you suspect them?
Wing Nut gives a very weak answer but goes back to the fact that Chupa has tree as a suspect :-

[AC] wing nut;2751623 said:
What if I just said all of them.

Mostly the defense of Wiz, like I said its over the top. Asking for lists but not having one of his own looks like he is gauging others points of view to be able to decide on who should be hit or easiest to have lynched.Then today he has Tree as a suspect, I think its been proven that Tree is innocent from his posts and the day 1 voting scenario already pointed out.
Anyway, now we know that Wing Nut is a confirmed witch. I very much agree with the suggestion that the Warlock has to cast the turn spell on Wing Nut.

As regards the lynch, it seems to me that we need to process this confirmation of Wing as scum and look for a couple more candidates. I would have been totally on board with Chupa going up for the lynch, except for Wing having adopted my line of questioning and sticking a vote on them. That has to make us reconsider. There seems very little chance that the witches would be willing to run a serious effort involving two of them up against each other.

I believe I will be able to get back on the thread a couple of times before nightfall.

My suggestion is that with Wizard and Wing being confirmed scum there is likely to be some good information available to the town and I hope to find that.






[AC] chupacabra;2751742 said:
I am now inclined, like most people I'm sure, to lean Tree innocent. Not that I would ever write it in stone -these are the mafia games after all- and I'm not going to follow tree like a lost dog, but I do think they have the towns interests at heart.

Rickets... you remind me of Rich, hard to pin anything on you and more often quiet then talkative.

Narwal hasn't posted much, and contributed less. I'm curious about their intentions, as they haven't made them entirely clear (at least I don't think so).

Chongo... sucks that you're leaving, but I would rather have someone pull out then UD unespectedly or not participate and end up the lynch for it.

Star-Crossed hasn't done much to get my attention, so I'll just leave them be for now.

HH, you are like a shark homing in on it's prey. Except without the feeding frenzy. I think you're innocent, but would like to know when Doom left your radar and scum list.

Doom. What can I say? I won't clear you, but I can no longer call you a high-likelyhood scum.

Wing, you have done scummy things, and I am starting to see you as evil. However, I will refrain from voting for you until later.

C-Note... his vote on Tree on day one could have been an attempt at defending Wizard. Cant get much of a read on you yet either.

If I've left anyone out, its cause I can't think of anything to say about them. It's 11pm here, so I'm going to bed. Cyall tomorrow.
I am still a little concerned by you Chupa - you have left me out and its a little surprising to me - I focused very closely on you before you made this post.

[AC] Tree_Hugger;2751764 said:
Let's do this, there is a spell out there that can turn wing to a townie. Let's let hope that the warlock casts the spell on wing. So let's not burn wing and burn someone else. I think there is time to make that happen.
I agree with this logic. The warlock is pro town. A turn of a townie is a bit of a disaster. Cast the spell on a known which. With Hammerhead having nailed Wizard there is absolutely no reason I can see not to believe them when they say that Wing Nut is as well, being that we are confident that the turn spell was not used yesterday or today.
 

[AC] xx_Nemesis_xx

Mafia Goddess
Mar 6, 2008
1
0
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ACville, Greece
[AC] Tree_Hugger;2751764 said:
Let's do this, there is a spell out there that can turn wing to a townie. Let's let hope that the warlock casts the spell on wing. So let's not burn wing and burn someone else. I think there is time to make that happen.
[AC] Hammerhead 991;2751765 said:
We talked about it, and this seemed to be the way to go. Neither of us really wanted to do it, but also didn't want to take the chance on Wing slipping past the flame. I wish my first post had gone through, it explained the why's of it all. The reader's digest version is that we need to move past arguing with wing and figure out where to go next.
[AC] Hammerhead 991;2751769 said:
The funny thing is that we had had this thought too. Coming from most anyone else, the idea would be highly suspect. But under the circumstances it has a lot of merrit. The town would have to go along with it, but I'm all for it at the moment. If any other townie's are against this plan, I hope they speak up.
[AC] Hammerhead 991;2751771 said:
Actually, the more I think about it, taking the ensuiing train on Wing out of the equation will also create a lot more opportunity to see how people are voting...

I think it's a good idea.
[AC] Hammerhead 991;2751775 said:
Just to be clear, the play for townies would be to retract on Wing and vote your next best suspect.

I retract my vote on Wing.

I don't know where to go yet. I'm going to give it some time and post my vote in the morning since I probably won't be around most of the day, and may miss nightfall.
Guys this is definitely the way forward. The warlock doesn't have a choice - they have to cast that turn spell. A turn of a townie would be a disaster, not just on the numbers but also on damaging our efforts to look through the game and find the scum team. A new scum member would massively help the witches. Why would the town take the risk of the spell landing on a townie when we have a confirmed witch to cure ?
 

[AC] xx_Nemesis_xx

Mafia Goddess
Mar 6, 2008
1
0
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ACville, Greece
[AC] Star-Crossed;2751701 said:
I just wanted to take a look at these, and color code them somewhat. Retractions are in grey, so as not to get confused with scum. Known scum in red, known innocent in blue, my scum suspects in orange, my leaning most innocent in green, kinda innocent in purple. I am not color coding myself since I obviously know my role.

Night 1 Vote count:
Narwhal-(1)-Hammer
Chupa-(1)-Wizard
Rickets-(1)Chupa
Wizard-(1)-Tree, Fire
Tree-(3)- Wingnut, C-note, Driver
Mael-(2)- Gunslinger, Rickets
Dooms-(1)-HiIQ
Gun-(2)-Narwhal, Scoop
Driver-(3)-Star, Nem, Tree
Wingnut-(2)-BadHaggis, UhOh
HIIQ-(1)-Dooms
C-note-(0)-Mael
Fire-(0)-Nem
Nem-(1)Mael


Night 2 Vote count:
Wizard-(9)-Hammerhead, Tree, Star, IQ, Narwhal, Scoop, Wing, Fire, Nem
Tree-(1)-Wizard
Dooms-(2)-BadHaggis, Chupa
Chupa-(1)-Dooms, Nem
Nem-(2)-Uhoh, Rickets
No votes: Gunslinger, C-note

My scumspects have all spread themselves out on night 1. On night 2 it looks like they were going to make a play to lynch Doom if possible, but that did not work so Nar and Wing bailed in hopes of hiding.
The only thing I'd say about your list is that Hammer and Tree can be taken as confirmed innocent in my mind.

Factoring in Wing Nut as confirmed scum has me thinking that we have to look carefully at Chupa again - Chupa was in fact right up there as a potential witch, until Wing Nut piggy backed my post where I called Chupa out for having Tree on his list of suspects. I'm not clearing Chupa by any means - objectively their posting has been scummy.

Other than that I agree that Narwhal is a good suspect,

On Bad Haggis, as I pointed out earlier there is a potential connection between Bad Haggis and Wing Nut.

My point then was that if Wing was scum it is difficult to think they would have left him hanging on two votes on Day 1, where the lynch vote was at 3. My thinking was therefore that at least one of the votes on him was likely to be a team member. If someone else voted wing, the team member or members could have just come off wing and onto anyone else in a slightly less obtrusive way than jumping on board whoever Wing got tied up with, i.e. making their vote a direct kill vote.

We now also have Uh Oh as confirmed innocent. The other vote on Wing on D1 was Bad Haggis. Now that Wing is a scumbag, that pushes Bad Haggis right up the list for me.
 

[AC] RICKETS

I'm bad fo' yo' bones Yo!
Mar 11, 2008
0
0
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ACville
Hammer, we should take this into consideration.

You are the Warlock. While you belive in your craft, you are not part of the coven and you are doing your best to learn how to cast spells. You just have problems with getting things right, sometimes. You have three spells at your disposal. You must use them on Nights 2, 3 and 4.

At the beginning of day 2, 3 and 4, you will PM me on who one of the spells will be used on. You even get to pick the spell. Spell #1 - doubles the vote of one person that night. Spell #2 - Converts a witch to a townie or a townie to witch, after the affects of that night. Spell #3 - forces a player to not vote at all and not have any consequences happen. You can not use the spells on yourself.

Your spells die with you if you are burned at the stake or a victim of the witches nightly games.
Unless I'm mistaken, the rules tell us the Warlock already had to submit their target and choose which spell to cast immediately after the last nightfall. If that's correct and they did not already submit their PM to turn Wingnut from one role to another...... it's too late now.

Isn't it?
 

[AC] xx_Nemesis_xx

Mafia Goddess
Mar 6, 2008
1
0
0
ACville, Greece
OK this is quite long and goes up to post 520 or thereabouts.

[AC] narwhal;2750512 said:
The other possibility since it was day one, is that even if one of those in a tie for the barbequing is a witch, would the other witches want to stand out by saving them? I do not think I would unless it was the boss. A last minute kill vote on day one would stand out like two sore thumbs.
This is Narwhal talking about Night 1. He's mooting the possibility that in fact Tree is a witch, i.e. that the fact that Tree was left in a tie does not mean he's likely to be innocent. This is a bad theory.

[AC] narwhal;2750657 said:
I can see the case and the logic, but I see nothing that would make be think you could be 100% on anything. I see even less logic in your choice of teammates, that is just supposition. Are you 100% about that as well?
This is Narwhal saying he can see the case and the logic against Wizard. Bear in mind, there was no case or logic to it in reality. Hammerhead got the info from an investigation and ran with it. For narwhal to say he saw a case and logic is a lie.

Wing Nut, known witch, I think its his first couple of posts of the day. He targets C Note. :-

[AC] wing nut;2750746 said:
Okay somewhat caught up. I skimmed to get the jest of what is going on and will go back and get a better read later when the kids are in bed.

I noticed not many commented on the spell.



Sounds like Warlock spell number 3 to me. Spell #3 - forces a player to not vote at all and not have any consequences happen.

So we know that person can't UD. If a witch got this spell they could lay low or actually not even post at all knowing we don't vote UDs,so we need to keep this in mind.





My post was 4 minutes after Trees vote, do you really think I read and reacted? I wrote my vote and was trying to think of something clever to write after it. I didn't even know Tree had voted yet.

I don't know why Doom is protecting me, it always makes me uneasy when someone sticks up for me anytime in the game but on Day 2 it really makes me wonder. Doom is one I plan on looking more into. No one should be excusing anyone at this point and usually the ones excusing are the ones that need to be looked into the most.
[AC] wing nut;2750759 said:
Besides that I posted at the same exact time stamp as the vote tally?

I was catching up and noticed everyone else had written it the other way so to make sure it counted I changed it to the correct wording.

Looks like you are reaching a little bit Cnote, nervous that you are being looked at and trying to deflect much?
Narwhal again. Here Narwhal is answering a question asked about someone else. It just looks a little like he's trying to appear helpful.

[AC] narwhal;2750762 said:
I did not notice, seems to me it means he did not pay all that much attention when he typed it, came back later and saw that it was incorrect and changed it. I generally go back to my last post when reading that way I do not miss anything.
Wing Nut has a little pop at Narwhal. Nothing too damaging.

[AC] wing nut;2750766 said:
You sure do offer up explanations for players a lot. Are you a latcher?
[AC] wing nut;2750768 said:
My last post was to Narwal
Narwhal is speaking to Hammerhead here. Again, there was no real thoughts on Wizard (how could there be - it was the start of Day 2). It's just that Hammerhead knew Wizard was high priest because of the investigation :-

[AC] narwhal;2750942 said:
You being holier than though and making guarantees proves nothing, which is what I said. I would dismiss you entirely but your thoughts on Wiz make sense. The rest is gibberish. You should stick to the one point you made that works.
In fairness to Narwhal he comes out and says it (I think its Tree he calls obnoxious).

[AC] narwhal;2750990 said:
I really hate to agree with someone that obnoxious but I do think that the Wiz is scum.


I vote to burn Wiz at the stake.
^ Now, this was the fourth or fifth vote on Wiz. I don't know. Is that a little early for the scum to jump on their boss ? They certainly would have needed an exit strategy if they were jumping on at this time.

Scoop is next vote on, I mention in passing. This put Wizard on either five or six votes. That's quite the train.

[AC] scoop411;2751030 said:
I vote to marinate Wiz in Scotch and light him up like a Christmas tree.
I vote to burn Wiz at the stake.
OK this I believe is possibly significant. This has to be taken as a defence of wizard/effort not to have wizard lynched. Hello BadHaggis welcome to the game :-

[AC] BadHaggis;2751154 said:
I vote to burn Doomsday at the stake. Not sure what to make of this Wiz/Tree situation. Tree seems pretty confident and Wiz not putting up a fight does make it rather difficult to avoid. I do believe the train has left the station and nobody's getting off until the next stop, so i won't bother. We'll likely find out Wiz's role at nightfall.

I'm sorry i haven't been on much. Truthfully, i thought i'd have more time. If I can get back on before nightfall, I will. It's going to take some catching up though as I'd like to go through things a bit more thoroughly.

As far as my suspect list (since obviously I'm a low poster, so that question's coming), you're on it. :girl:Yes, this means you.
Wing, confirmed scum, suspect list :-

[AC] wing nut;2751177 said:
I think I'm probably more in danger of being lynched then hit at this point of the game but since others are looking for suspect lists I will throw one out too

no particular order

Wiz- I'm still not 100% sure. Lack of posting is suspicious,I'm going more on HHs gut feeling and Wizs poor case on Tree.

Cnote- This is who I planned on voting last night if I decided to post a vote but wanted to see more of todays posts. He has tried to pull posts and twist them to make others look bad. He pulled my vote correction but didn't pay attention to the timestamp of the post and vote tally. He also pulled a post of Nemesis stating that he never mentioned the 3rd vote being scummy when he infact did twice. He has laid low except to put out doubt about others posts.

Narwal- I think he is nothing more then a latcher. I haven't seen any digging on other suspects and a failure to really get into the middle of anything. They do like to explain other peoples posts for them.

Chupacabra- more of a gut feeling at this point, can't put my finger on it but the posts don't sit well with me as of now.

All my other suspects are low posters- more then anything its lack of posts that makes me suspect them. If you aren't letting us read your thoughts then you are hiding and hoping to be overlooked. No reason for that except you are scum and afraid to slip up.

UhOh- 2 posts, a vote for me because of my avatar. Then a post to say how hard it is to keep up with the aliases, no digging at all

Gun- a few joke posts,vote on Maelstrom and no digging at all

Rickets- I see just posted so we'll see if they contribute or disappear again.

Bad Haggis- a few posts,seemingly looking helpful but no digging
A point I would make is that scum nearly always put some fellow scum somewhere on their suspect list. His main list is C Note, Narwhal and Chupa. Gunslinger is on the secondary list, a known innocent. Uh Oh is on the secondary list, a known innocent. Rickets and Bad Haggis make the secondary list. Bad Haggis is described as seemingly helpful. I don't see anywhere where Bad Haggis has actually been helpful.

Narwhal again :-

[AC] narwhal;2751235 said:
I think a list on day two, with this many players is of little value. I think it provides direction for people looking to get a lynch on an innocent.
^ My comment is, this is a game with a turn. Lists help. They help generally in any event. Also, even if it is Day 2 we have a lot of activity by now, with Hammerhead making a strong assertion about Wizard, and the responses to it. Narwhal is opting out.

I was getting scummy vibes from Doomsday during Day 2, somewhat arising from their interactions with Hammerhead and Tree :-

[AC] Doomsday998;2751364 said:
I'll leave tonight with some more condensed thoughts on players. This is based on what I'm thinking now, so it's subject to change...none of this is in a particular order...

Possible suspects:

Chupa- I don't like how they took the situation with Wiz and then disregarded Wiz's role and put me and Wing in the spotlight. When I questioned them it quickly became me and only me with little explanation as to why. I also don't like how they turned around and said they don't have a suspect list after prodding a couple people to post theirs. The mix up of me and Tree is certainly odd as well.

UhOh- Hardly posting at all and the only contribution they have made since D1 is a comment about how hard it is to play with aliases and a vote on Nem for changing font. Definitely seems like a cop out vote to me.

Scoop- See post #469. The quick succession of posts without much to them and the spacing between their first post and the vote is odd.

Narwhal- See post #469. Essentially let others do the case building on Wiz and was reluctant to vote there.

BH- Giving no reason for a vote is scummy enough, regardless if it was a vote for me. Also a low poster who hasn't done any digging. They commented as briefly as possible regarding Wiz too.

Wing- See post #469. In addition I could see the vote D1 as trying to protect Wiz now that we know he was the scum boss.

Still Unsure :

Star- As the 3rd vote on Wiz I find it unlikely they are scum, but I'm not entirely convinced yet. They did directly address Wiz.

Rickets- I will admit that I still haven't gone back and analyzed their vote on Nem. It was late but it seemed to be at least based on something substantial. Of the people with prolonged absences Rickets is at least attempting to stay up to speed.

HI IQ- Their vote on Wiz was still early, although in sort of a gray area for timing. Looking back I think the vote was still well thought out.

Nem- The late vote on Wiz may have been to save face although statistically I think there was still a chance Wiz may not have been lynched before Nem did move. So after the vote switch it would have taken someone to move off Wiz for that to be possible. I'll need to look more into their other posts when I look at Ricket's vote. I know there was mention of their vote on Driver at one point but I think that got buried with the revelations about Wiz.

Cnote- There's probably the greatest possibility of me leaning them more towards the scum side than the others. I don't like how they remained absent for a good 24 hours, even if the no-vote spell was used. Their D1 vote seemingly looks like a more overt defense of Wiz than Wing's too. However, based on their interactions with wing I don't see the two of them both being scum and by default I don't have them in the suspect pool, for now.

Leaning innocent:

Tree- Being that vocal about Wiz and being scum seems high unlikely.

HH- It's not even worth diving into the possibilities of HH being scum and naming Wiz like that...

Fire- I really doubt a teammate would be the second D1 vote on their own boss.
The point I would make is that he's onto Wing, both in this post and in 469. This has to be seen as a pro-town attitude, in light of Wings known status.


Wing Nut provides another list. Remember, scum will always have a team member on their lists. The list is C Note, Narwhal and Chupa.
[AC] wing nut;2751618 said:
Most everyone had half the town as suspects. Hard to narrow it down when others aren't posting at all. Besides the real list were the top 4 the others were just suspect for low posting.

I'd say the top 3 of my list Cnote, Narwal and Chupa.
Cnote for twisting posts and trying to make more of something then there really is, Narwal because they look to latch onto people by explaining their posts for them and for his failure to get into the middle of anything. If anyone is doing what you say I am,posting enough to be seen but not enough to screw up its them. Then Chupas post are just out there. I can't even follow his logic most of the time. If you were looking for defense of Wiz he was it till the moment Wiz turned to ash.
I could have gone more in depth but anyone that has been following has read his posts and ones pulled by others. I see no reason why they need to be pulled again. I voted Chupa because there are posts to read, Cnote has hidden themselves and didn't post at all yesterday. I'd just as easily switch to the other 2.

I'm not complaining that we got Wiz thanks to your gut feeling, I said earlier there are times I wish I had gone with my gut. I'm complaining that now its going to be do as HH says no matter the evidence out there.

Can you honestly say the case against me is the best one out there?
Now, here's where I get a little queasy about Bad Haggis being a witch. He votes Wizard prior to Hammerhead coming out - I will find the post in question but it is early Day 2 and before the role claim.

I think Bad Haggis' early vote on Wing could be important in their defence so I highlight it in fairness to them.

I think one or more of Narwhal, Chupa and C Note is a witch.

Based on my own thoughts, my pick of those three would be Narwhal.
 

[AC] xx_Nemesis_xx

Mafia Goddess
Mar 6, 2008
1
0
0
ACville, Greece
Well done - this is an important point.

[AC] RICKETS;2751834 said:
Hammer, we should take this into consideration.



Unless I'm mistaken, the rules tell us the Warlock already had to submit their target and choose which spell to cast immediately after the last nightfall. If that's correct and they did not already submit their PM to turn Wingnut from one role to another...... it's too late now.

Isn't it?
Lady G might give us a clarification here, but I think you're right.
 

[AC] RICKETS

I'm bad fo' yo' bones Yo!
Mar 11, 2008
0
0
0
ACville
Lady G, please confirm two things for us?

1. Is the warlock a neutral player or part of the innocent side? (Just to make sure since no one has asked specifically.)

2. Has the warlock already cast their Day 3 spell and, if so, are they allowed to change it?
 
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