Help! My discus & Angels are not acting right?

newdreamz · Dec 5, 2009

Ive noticed my discus and angels not acting right. I have a 110 gal 50%planted tank. I noticed my fish seemed to have dissapeared, after taking a closer look they are all hidinging in plants hanging out close to the bottom of the tank and mostly on the side of the tank where the filter intake is. The discus color is very dark! They seem to be moving their fins very fast also. (all the fish) The temp normally stays 82-84F PH constant 7.5 NH& NO all read 0 GH 8 KH 4. They have all been aggressive eaters and now seem to have decreased appitite. The only recent thing done in the tank is i added Flourish yesterday. But as i think about it, they were hiding when i did that. I did 50% water change tonight with chlorine treatment and added a couple of spoonfuls of disolved aquarium salt. My neons seem to be more active. A couple others seem to be swimming about too with some color back. I did have one of my blue rams die a couple days ago, but i assumed that was due to the other 2 picking on him. I had an outbreak of the angels spawning 2 weeks ago, but overnight they ate all the eggs. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Here is a pic of what 1 of my discus looked like last week and then the other is from tonight. Should I give them a salt bath?

foolishfish · Dec 5, 2009

I noticed that you've got a sand substrate, do you vacuum it? I don't remember where in these forums that I read it but I recall someone admonishing that a thick sand substrate can sometimes develop pockets of contaminant gases.

Also when doing detective work I always start by testing everything: ammonia, Ph, nitrates, nitrites, phosphate, etc.

Check to see if your water conditioner handles chloramine as well as chlorine. Water treatment facilities sometimes change their sanitizing chemicals and products like Genesis I believe will only remove chlorine.

I recently experienced just that, although I use Prime and it works with both. With the change from chlorine to chloramine they also added some carbonate buffers and my tap water's Ph shot from 7.2 to 8.4. Tried a bunch of phosphate buffers and balancers without understanding their interactions and ended up wasting a lot of chemicals trying to get a fix. Finally had to go to an acid buffer and a Ph regulator to get things right. Fortunately caught it before the fish got hit.

Pretty fish. I don't have any discus right now but Ph of 7.5 seems extremely high for their liking. If all else fails on the forums try Discus Hans. He imports the Stendker Discus and has forgotten more than I'll ever know.
http://www.twofishguyz.com/

Also might try PM'ing Mr. Bishop, Pop pops fish or Ted Santos / House of Orange. All of them have given me tremendously helpful advise in the past.

pinkertd · Dec 5, 2009

That discus definitely looks like something is bothering him big time. What is your tank maintenance routine, how big are your water changes and how often? Have you added any new tankmates in the last few weeks? You mentioned you have a pair of angels spawning. I know angels are extremely aggressive when paired and spawning. Take some time to see how much aggression they are dishing out to the tank inhabitants. Surely the discus will get the brunt of that since they are the next largest fish in there. What other fish do you have in there besides what you've already mentioned? Any new foods...particularly live foods added to the diet lately?

pH 7.5 is not too high. Only wild discus require a lower ph and softer water. Your ph is perfectly fine.

newdreamz · Dec 5, 2009

I posted this on simply discus the other day, so i just copied what i wrote there, so it has been a couple of days since this started.

My conditioner contains both. I check my tap and it consistantly stays at 7-7.5 I have been told that it is ok for discus as long as they are acclimated slowly. My angels actually started spawning a couple of weeks ago, so im guessing ph is not my problem. My angels i have had for quite some time and the discus for a few months. It is actually from hans.

After the 50% water change the other day most of the angels seemed to perk up and a couple of my discus color came back and were more active. Im doing another 50% water change as i post this, i will test the water again once it fills just to see where its at again. I cleaned out the filter, it was pretty yucky.

As far as the sand, i have read that too, after the fact that i used it for substrate, play sand at that. Never do that again. It packs up and gets hard, not like the pretty white sand i have in my other tanks. I have some clams that are constantly digging around through it so it is getting moved, constantly having to stick plants back due to the clams. Plus i poke around in it at least once a week, what a pain in a 110. I would like to take it out and just go bare bottom with some potted plants. Not sure the best way to remove it without tearing the whole tank down without having to recycle the tank. What a mess!

I have noticed that the angels and the discus seem to have a pale white film over them. Possibly over producing slime coat? Some have a couple white specks on them too, looks like ick. Im just wondering if a salt bath would help.. I have never done salt bath, but read about how to do it.

newdreamz · Dec 5, 2009

The angels spawned then ate the eggs that night, they were very defensive with the other angels, but the discus were smart and didnt go near them, so the angels never bothered with them. Its not just the discus that is acting strange, its the angels and discus. Well i have 2 opaline groumies and they are just happy swimmers like nothing is wrong and i have 2 blue rams and a school of neons that dont really seem to be bothered.

I have a few cory, 2 groumie, aprox 20 neons, 2 rams, aprox 10 angels ranging from 2"-adult size. 6 discus 2-2". few golden asian clams, apple snail, 6 large trapdoor snails.

I do almost 50% water change weekly. The foods are all the same since all of the fish have been in the tank. Feed the same foods to all my other fish too. So no change there. The frozen blood worms are from the same package they started on, one large brick.

a couple of the discus got their color back after the water change and seem to be more active, however the one in the picture is the darkest and is the biggest. He just hangs out between a couple of the plants, not interested a whole lot in food either. Ive never had a problem with dropping in bloodworms and they all dissapear in a flash. I put a smaller portion in than normal and there were leftovers. never seen the snails actually have free for all with the bloodworms before.

(knock on wood) the only fish i have lost was one of the blue rams and i believe that is due to the other 2 rams picking on him. Thought it was a female, but turned out to be a male and the other 2 are paired up and didnt like him. I was going to take him back to the LFS where i got him and trade him for something else, but the next day i found him stuck to the intake.

Not sure what to do about all this, the only tank i have i could put them in is i think its a 29gal hex. I think that would be a bit overcrowded.

Cerianthus · Dec 5, 2009

How long did you have discus and angel?
HOw long has this nice 110G been running? and how thich sand layer?

Any updated pics of discus and angel? and pic of whole tank?

Tall 110 tank is beautiful and perfect for plant and discus but it is for sure not an easy tank to reach bottom.

pinkertd · Dec 5, 2009

If they are producing excess slime coat, something is irritating them. The discus are young and you will need to raise your tank temp up to 86. Do it slowly but get it up. Perhaps you've had a dip in tank temperature recently and that would be enough to make the fish susceptible to illness, especially ick. You've got to deal with the ick in that tank and that alone would cause the discus to feel sick and produce more slime coat. You need to decide how to treat for the ick. I recently did an ick treatment in my pleco fry tank that contained red cherry shrimp, snails and cory and pleco fry using maracide at half strength for double the length of time. You can also do a salt treatment, not a bath, but a full treatment. Whatever you choose, it will probably take at least two weeks to kill all of the ick. But get that temp up first. The higher temp will also speed up the life cycle of ick, while lower temps will drag it out a bit. Cut back on the food while they are not feeling well. You're going to have to research if the clams can tolerate any treatment for ick, I'm not familiar with them.