Mycobacterium Marinum

[wataugachicken]

Furthermore, I had been very observant with my own fish. I conducted a research about this on several websites and encountered a site I had never seen before. It is Home of the Rainbowfish if I can remember the title of the site right. It gave a very detailed explanation that the juveniles who carry the Mycobacterium will not show any symptoms until in the later stage which is to say adult stage. I found this finding shocking since I had raised my praecox for several months and managed to spawn them on almost daily basis but found myself later on to see them drop one by one showing symptoms I've described above.

I simply could not believe what had happened and simply thought it was bacterial infection so I treated with meds intended for bacterial infections not knowing what they have was more dangerous I had ever thought. In the next few months, I was given plenty of surprises when I see more fish drop one by one. I foud out later on the exact cause and made up my mind to destroy all fish in the main tank and rebuild. This is one thing that almost made me gave up the hobby but I keep telling myself I shouldn't give up so easily while the rest of my tanks are simply doing well.

Hope this helps.

what a freaking nightmare. . . .

 

[sosgal721]

Just be carefull sticking your arms/hands in a tank you think might have mycobacterium. Especially if you have any open cuts. I used to wash dishes at a local restaurant, I sliced my finger on a food processor blade and later in the wekk clean some fish/calimari. 3 months later I have ulcers/ bumps on my finger exaclty where I sliced my finger open. Well 2 trips to the dermatologists and 2 skin biopsy's later they determined I had mycobacterium marinum. 6 months more of antibiotics and it finally cleared up. Just a heads up.

Thanks for the heads up. I read that if not treated quickly enough there will be permanent disfiguration. Fortunately for you they got it on the second try.

Okay, to answer this, a fish should appear to be suffering from dropsy. Yes, protrusion of scales, popeye and open mouth (that the mouth cannot even cloe) are often prominent in the early stages. Later on, the fish becomes very listless gasping on the surface a lot and in most cases, even trying to swim around fast as if struggling to keep still.

They will not die as fast as most of us expect. They suffer slowly and will eventually after a few days of being listless. A week or two is about all the time they have once they are on the early stage. When a fish dies and you fail to remove the corpse, obviously, they will cannibalize the body thus ensuring the bacteria remains and continues the cycle of death. But even this is not enough, organic wastes such as their feces and urea are another. Once they come in contact to it, you will notice they will slowly develop symptoms as they areslowly weakened. Healthy fish are bound to carry them and if they are lucky, they will survive and will remain as threats to other fish but at the same time, suffer while carrying with them the hazardous pathogens.

Hope this helps.

That helps since reading it makes me think that my fish don't actually have mycobacterium. I have never encountered popeye, haven't seen any fish that can't close their mouth, and have only seen the pine cone effect twice, both times by females being severely harassed by males. Something that you don't mention but that I found in searching for dropsy is swollen abdomen, which I have never seen on a male fish (the only time my females don't have swollen abdomens is for the week after they give birth).

Also, the curved spines of my two male identical looking guppies were evident when the fish were only a week old, suggesting genetic defect over tumor. The other occasion that I noticed a slight bend was in a male guppy that I had for 8 months and was an adult when purchased. When he died he was bent at a slight angle in his midsection, but this was the first I had seen of it and I saw him just about daily.

Would this be a good reason to doubt my fish having mycobacterium, or would this just suggest that they might have a different strain than yours had that presents differently? I'm not sure of the chances of having my tank the way it is if there is not some sort of infection, but would it be reasonable to expect the occasional death or deformity given the large number of fish in the tank(over 120 at last estimate, though mostly juvenile)?

 

[Lupin]

Would this be a good reason to doubt my fish having mycobacterium, or would this just suggest that they might have a different strain than yours had that presents differently? I'm not sure of the chances of having my tank the way it is if there is not some sort of infection, but would it be reasonable to expect the occasional death or deformity given the large number of fish in the tank(over 120 at last estimate, though mostly juvenile)?

You have a good reason to doubt mycobacteriosis. Yes, I forgot the swollen abdomen. Sorry about that. It would be reasonable to expect deaths by a time interval of a week or two while showing symptoms such as listlessness, curvature of the spines, popeye and many others mentioned earlier. As for deformity, your case leans more into inbreeding than the possible mycobacteriosis. I would advise destroying those with genetic defects.

 

[wataugachicken]

this pic is from the drs' foster and smith website, a page about fish illnesses. this is the example for tb:

i have several guppies that look like that, but without any of the other symptoms you guys listed. they are prone to fin rot and fungus though.

 

[sosgal721]

I would advise destroying those with genetic defects.

So they don't breed or for other reasons? I currently have them in the 20L without any females to prevent them from breeding. Also should they die in there the crayfish will eat them right away. Its funny that it will completely ignore healthy fish, including a molly that shares its cave with it, but will grab a dead one before I even see it.

this pic is from the drs' foster and smith website, a page about fish illnesses. this is the example for tb:

i have several guppies that look like that, but without any of the other symptoms you guys listed. they are prone to fin rot and fungus though.

Those look pretty bad. I'll try to get a picture of the two that I have tomorrow. They don't look anywhere near as bad though as they only have a single bend in the middle.

 

[Lupin]

So they don't breed or for other reasons? I currently have them in the 20L without any females to prevent them from breeding. Also should they die in there the crayfish will eat them right away. Its funny that it will completely ignore healthy fish, including a molly that shares its cave with it, but will grab a dead one before I even see it.

They're not for breeding purposes. I didn't know you separated them by gender which is a good decision on the whole. I would advise though that those with genetic defects are best culled but it is up to the owner whether he chooses to do it or not.

 

[sosgal721]

They're not for breeding purposes. I didn't know you separated them by gender which is a good decision on the whole. I would advise though that those with genetic defects are best culled but it is up to the owner whether he chooses to do it or not.

I moved any fish that looked like it had something wrong with it to the 20L. Fortunately it just worked out that all 3 mollies moved are female and all 4 guppies moved are male. Part of the problem and the reason I finally decided to determine whether my fish actually had mycobacteriosis is that there are way too many livebearers in the tank and I didn't want to give any away or feed any to my turtle that might be sick. Now I have to decide between euthanizing some of them or feeding them to the turtle since none of the LFS will take them and I can't get enough food to my Kuhlis without causing water quality issues:headshake2:

As a reference for how many fish might be in the tank, I took out 35 and put them in an extra 20 gallon QT that I have and I barely notice the difference.

 

[wataugachicken]

if they have myco marinum, they could definitely make your turtle sick. euthanasia would be the healthier option overall.

 

[x_LoUiSe_x]

is it just me or is the fact that ur sig says u have 1000s of livebearers in a 55g not gonna help the problem?? surely there would be water quality issues that could be leading to these problems? correct me if im wrong though, im no expert lol

 

[KarlTh]

I took the "thousands" to be a humorous exaggeration pointing out poeciliid fecundity.

It's fair enough to suspect a bacterial infection in TB infections (I'm old school and find it quicker to type ), especially since TB is a bacterial infection.

I've never had it confirmed, but when I lived in Watford (just north of London) I had no luck with a series of fish over some months, with all sorts of wasting, bloating, lethargy and then one day dead. I suspect this was the cause. I've been a lot luckier since moving north. It's a horrible disease, both because of the way it can hang around for years, and the way it can infect humans, although with less serious symptoms and consequences.