Mafia 46: In the Dark

[OgreMkV]

This is post 217.... Ogre, I never did see your thoughts on my finding here.... no defense, just nothing... odd for you if you ask me....
wouldn't you think you should try and explain this?

I'm at work so I'm not going to go digging for the past. However, I think my aggressive comment was more for C-note. He was the super aggro one at the very beginning. Gunslinger too to a degree.

Except for the vote thing, which IMO was a talk starter, Mael hasn't been that aggressive.

OK, I'll try this one more time... and if I get accused of beating a dead horse, then I'm going to scream.

In all the games we've played and I've reffed. There have been, maybe, two instances where some complicated mafia scheme actually worked. The best scheming was actually done by the doc/det team in that one game. The absolute best plan for mafia is stay in the noise and let the innocents tear each other up.

Please keep in mind something here. There are only 2 mafia right now. There are four prople with votes (including me). There's no way all four are mafia, so some players are being confused by goofy statements or things they think are weird or whatever. There's only a 25% chance (I think, I hated probability in school) that one of the four players currently voted for is mafia.

Look at mael, everyone has pretty much agreed that he voted for you, DD, to get the ball rolling and almost randomly... yet he's got the most votes. I'm willing to put a fair bit of money on the fact that NO MAFIA HAVE VOTED YET.

That's why I don't think Mael is mafia. There's no profit in making this move at this point in time.

The mafia are at their best when they have someone else to twist. For example, Gunslinger would make a great mafia candidate. No one is posting anything about him at all. However, he has a ready target in Maelstrom so anything that he (gunslinger) says about maelstrom is going to be something that everyone else agrees with.

At this time, I'd like to point out that no one has even mentioned that gunslinger has at least once been caught saying things that had no basis in reality (about me and caught by me), but everyone is following him.

Now, noodles, she fits MY perfect example of what a day one mafia should be. Helpful, yet not actually saying anything. Talkative, yet not saying very much at all. Other candidates that fit this profile so far are John (of course, where would the game be without me and John at each others throats), chiclids, rich, maybe even opi, jbrad, jarred, and lucky. However many of these are new and depending on the quality and teamwork from the mafia may or may not be excused.

That's the other thing everyone keeps bringing up. The mafia talking, the mafia laughing behind our backs. Almost every game where I've been mafia, it's been pretty much 'good luck'. There have been a few team discussions, but mainly it was 'crap he voted for me, someone say something to get everyone off my case'. This may or may not be true in this instance, I can't say, which is why I'm including a few of the newbies on my mafia list.

Again, based on past play, the most vocal are most likely to be innocent... up to a point.

I'm sure that doesn't answer whatever thing you needed me to answer, but I hope that it explains my position well enough. If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them.

Ta da

 

[rich311k]

I put gun as number one on my current list #234. I think that everything that can be said about mael has been said.

I have been reading all of this all morning and I get the impression that if anyone says anything they get raked over the coals. Which is part of the fun. I am reading all of this one more time and will post shortly.

I stink at multy quotes but I will see what I can do.

 

[dirtydawg10]

My suspicion of you has nothing to do with how I feel about maelstrom. Maelstrom may be scum for all I know. Since you asked, though, I don't find maelstrom's early unsubstantiated vote for DD as necessarily being scummy. Especially enough to lean DD innocent.

The main reason that voting for someone without giving a reason can be viewed as a scumtell, is that it can sometimes be opportunistic. Some scum (usually newer players) see an opportunity to jump on an already-moving train and then just follow other players, without giving a reason. In mael's case, though, they were the first on DD. That doesn't look very opportunistic to me.

You claim that it smelled like mael was trying to start a train on DD. How? Who do you think was going to jump on after mael's vote, especially with no reason given? It's really weird that you would lean DD innocent based on maelstrom's seemingly random vote.

Not saying that I believe maelstrom is innocent (or mafia, either), just that the unsubstantiated vote for DD doesn't tell me anything about mael. It's a nulltell, and not a scumtell.

I never said it was a smart move by Mael or that it would work. Mael has done several questionable things thus far. I simply said I think his intent was to start something on DD. The unsubstantiated vote on DD seemed scummy which is why I and several others had asked for an explanation. I was waiting to see a response which is why I never voted for him. However, the dodging of questions and the under pressure retraction of his vote on DD is more of a tell than the original vote itself...IMO.


More skimming by Mael...

Obvious scummy play - nonsense. My vote was not scummy. Never actually answering the one question - nonsense. Read the thread. Dancing around it - you are kidding me right I mean lol I danced around nothing. Just said I wasn't giving a reason for voting Dangerdoll. That is not avoiding anything. Calling others out for not answering questions - also nonsense. Dirtydawg was slow to say whether he thought my vote was scummy. That's all. That is a long way off calling anybody out never made "others

Anyway, that's three votes on me. In terms of trying to help the town, as far as I'm concerned I've put more effort in than anyone and I'm comfortable taking the heat for that. Think about it.

3 hrs after I was questioned about my concerns with Mael I let everyone know that I thought it was a scummy move. You haven't done anything yet to change my mind so...

I vote to lynch Maelstrom

 

[[AC] maelstrom]

My retraction was no way under pressure. In fact to the opposite I did not react to the pressure.

I rely on the posts I've made as showing where I'm coming from and what I've done to be of help.

Your suggestion that I have done "several" scummy things thus far can not be correct. Your suggestion of me dodging questions is equally wrong. I replied every time and dodged nothing.

If you are innocent dawg, you need to be thinking more about what you're doing and not just picking on the most obvious thing anyone has done this game (me voting for Dangerdoll early on day 1).

 

[noodles62]

My retraction was no way under pressure. In fact to the opposite I did not react to the pressure.

I rely on the posts I've made as showing where I'm coming from and what I've done to be of help.

Your suggestion that I have done "several" scummy things thus far can not be correct. Your suggestion of me dodging questions is equally wrong. I replied every time and dodged nothing.

If you are innocent dawg, you need to be thinking more about what you're doing and not just picking on the most obvious thing anyone has done this game (me voting for Dangerdoll early on day 1).

I totally disagree; you never answered the question thus "dodged"; replying and answering are two very different things! It's like talking to a politician! :thud:

I am still not convinced that you are innocent but the train is making me a bit nervous.....will read over more on my lunch break and try to come up with a vote of some sort.........Back to work.

 

[[AC] maelstrom]

Well at least you recognise its becoming a train

 

[[AC] maelstrom]

By the way, I am really taken aback at the lack of lists being put up by the town in circumstances where the mafia can turn people. This is fundamental to being able to track changes in players who've been turned. I think we should get on it people.

 

[[AC] C-note]

I never said it was a smart move by Mael or that it would work. Mael has done several questionable things thus far. I simply said I think his intent was to start something on DD. The unsubstantiated vote on DD seemed scummy which is why I and several others had asked for an explanation. I was waiting to see a response which is why I never voted for him. However, the dodging of questions and the under pressure retraction of his vote on DD is more of a tell than the original vote itself...IMO.

You specifically said that you were leaning DD innocent based on mael's vote... your mind was already made up. Apparently you thought mael was scum then, but just chose not to say it out loud at that time.

You claim to have been waiting for a response from mael before voting, but to me it looks like you were actually waiting for others to hop on first.

 

[[AC] C-note]

By the way, I am really taken aback at the lack of lists being put up by the town in circumstances where the mafia can turn people. This is fundamental to being able to track changes in players who've been turned. I think we should get on it people.

How so? Only thing people will be able to track is who has seemed scummy all along. How are lists going to identify innocents who have currently been helping the town, and then get turned Mafia down the road?

 

[[AC] maelstrom]

It helps C-Note. In fact it helps generally as it shares information but specifically in turn games when someone is turned it can show changes in suspicions from one day to the next and all that stuff which can be hard to justify.