Mafia #51 - Mafia Citizens - The Play

[Madcrawdad]

As I stated when I voted for Zigman, Kashta was my 1st suspect but since there were already so many votes on her I went with my 2nd suspect and had already stated my concerns on him. When the votes piled on Zig I felt like RB and Coler were playing games with the town and didn't want a part of it, especially if both candidates were Mucs. But when Kashta made the last minute switch to save herself w/no apparent reason but to save herself, which IMO is not protown, I saw the last minute shuffling as a concerted effort to save a Mucs. I still do. That's why I tried to switch. That is why my vote is on Kashta. I am less sure of RB and Coler, though they both need to be looked at again. This time I am voting for who I think is most likely Mucs, train or no train.

So many votes on her? There were only 4...and still a handful of people left to vote (inluding Kashta).

 

[Luvbugz]

I will admit I did not vote for Kash or Zigman yesterday because of the trains. I did believe and still do that there was some mucs involved with those votes. I have seen it happen too many times before. Someone makes some little mistake that the other side jumps on and blows way outta porportion and gets everyone to blindly follow along. Look what happened! We lost a citizen yesterday because of it. People have yet to convice me without a doubt that Kash is one of the mucs. If you are still going by the pm theory on her, she could be a wise guy or don. Why would I want to vote out a wiseguy (or don)? That would just be handing the game to the mucs, pretty much like we did last night.

I am not saying I completely rule out voting against Kash. I am just saying I need
more convincing and a little more evidence than just one post on day one.

Now the ones who have set off my spidey senses are Coler and RB. It seemed pretty blantly obvious to me that there was something going on there. Will be watching those two a little more closely today.

 

[Luvbugz]

Oh I forgot to add the plantling last minute vote. Still don't know what to make of it. Still think it looks suspicious. Still sticking with my theory for now.

 

[Dangerdoll]

We got to get rid of coler or rb. The way they talk, is that they are planning together to save each other. Unless they are both citzens, and are cheating by communcating. Which one is it? Why would you save each other. After tonight, kash seems to even more just scream out scum.
As again,
I vote to lynch kash
This is early, but people need to notice her. This is subject to change, looking at RB and coler.

tRS, how can you go from starting your statement of "we got to get rid of Coler or RB" to voting to take out Kash? Also, you say after tonight, Kash seems even more to scream out scum (which is mucs this game), what would make you say that, I am interested in your reasoning.

As I stated when I voted for Zigman, Kashta was my 1st suspect but since there were already so many votes on her I went with my 2nd suspect and had already stated my concerns on him. When the votes piled on Zig I felt like RB and Coler were playing games with the town and didn't want a part of it, especially if both candidates were Mucs. But when Kashta made the last minute switch to save herself w/no apparent reason but to save herself, which IMO is not protown, I saw the last minute shuffling as a concerted effort to save a Mucs. I still do. That's why I tried to switch. That is why my vote is on Kashta. I am less sure of RB and Coler, though they both need to be looked at again. This time I am voting for who I think is most likely Mucs, train or no train.

Plant, gotta tell you, this explanation looks nutty.... do you honestly think that if you were in the same position, you would do something different, whether mucs or townie? I don't think so... the bottom line is you made a last ditch effort at the worst time possible and lost to the bala clock..... and that makes you look way more suspicious. What you are saying here is you were trying to in a last ditch effort, to change the result of the vote... why vote one way earlier if you were so sure of kash being mucs?

 

[ZSandmann]

To does who didn't vote kash or zig it would help if you explained why you didn't vote zig or kash when the votes were so close? IMO you crapped out cause u didn't want the attention on you, and that makes me think rebel scum.

I didn't vote for Kashta because I didn't see her early "slips" as indicative that she was a Rebel. They may mean she got a PM, but there are many Pro-town roles that got PMs. I certainly think if she got a PM that makes her a person of interest but at this time I am not picking up the PR vibe I tend to get (although I usually get the sides wrong, hehe). I did not vote Zig because I didn't see Zig as a strong suspect and I was not online when all the last minute business went down, I can't say what I would have done if I was here then to watch it happen live.

We got to get rid of coler or rb. The way they talk, is that they are planning together to save each other. Unless they are both citzens, and are cheating by communcating. Which one is it? Why would you save each other. After tonight, kash seems to even more just scream out scum.
As again,
I vote to lynch kash
This is early, but people need to notice her. This is subject to change, looking at RB and coler.

This entire post makes abolutely zero sense. Both Coler and Rb are more than experienced enough to not be so direct in addressing each other if they were on the same team, unless they are pulling some of that Princess Bride, the wine in front of me business, but that never works out well. Also, to accuse them of cheating takes some big stones... Welcome officially to "The List(TM)" Offer not valid in Mexico or Puerto Rico.

I don't like what plantling, Coler and RB did either, Z. Of the three, plantling's vote seemed the most illogical, Coler's seemed the most opportunistic, and unfortunately deliberately attempting to be distracting has become RB's MO in a lot of these games. Of the three, Coler's vote concerns me the most.

But if you're concerned about what Coler and RB did, Z, you must think they did it to save Kashta, right? Still makes Kashta a good vote, doesn't it?

I vote to lynch Kashta

Sure it looks like a save for Kashta, but why throw it all out there on Day 1? Even if Kashta was the Don or Rebel (as it could be a Pro or Anti Town save) that would be a hugely noob mistake to expose three PRs so early.

From what I have read and I will admit I have skimmed through some of the posts..but RB and Coler seem to be communicating in some sort of way, have not figured out what their roles are yet, kind of foggy for me still at this point. Thanks for the warm welcome BTW....are you worried I may be another good guy?

Ha, here we go again with the Rb and Coler communicating business. I just don't think they would be so silly, maybe I'm having the wool pulled over my eyes, and I know Rb plays it loose, but come on. Also, nice swipe at me for your first post, do you really think I'm Mucus (or whatever the kids are calling Rebels these days, or are you just being arguementative?

As I stated when I voted for Zigman, Kashta was my 1st suspect but since there were already so many votes on her I went with my 2nd suspect and had already stated my concerns on him. When the votes piled on Zig I felt like RB and Coler were playing games with the town and didn't want a part of it, especially if both candidates were Mucs. But when Kashta made the last minute switch to save herself w/no apparent reason but to save herself, which IMO is not protown, I saw the last minute shuffling as a concerted effort to save a Mucs. I still do. That's why I tried to switch. That is why my vote is on Kashta. I am less sure of RB and Coler, though they both need to be looked at again. This time I am voting for who I think is most likely Mucs, train or no train.

The first bolded part is good, that is a reasonable reason to want to swap, when people jump votes so soon before Nightfall it makes my skin crawl as well. The second part however is silly, if Kashta is a Pro-Town player, it is very Pro-Town to save herself when she does not know the role of the other person up for Lynching. As I said last night, regardless of role, people will save thereselves given the chance, I don't view that as Pro or Anti-Town.


Ok caught up I believe, my Short List is Plantling, Red, Maverick, and CJ (The last two being because they are mighty quiet) These aren't in an order really but Plant and Red are certainly more strongly based than Mav or CJ.

To get a vote out there: I vote to lynch Red (TRS)

 

[Madcrawdad]

I will admit I did not vote for Kash or Zigman yesterday because of the trains. I did believe and still do that there was some mucs involved with those votes. I have seen it happen too many times before. Someone makes some little mistake that the other side jumps on and blows way outta porportion and gets everyone to blindly follow along. Look what happened! We lost a citizen yesterday because of it. People have yet to convice me without a doubt that Kash is one of the mucs. If you are still going by the pm theory on her, she could be a wise guy or don. Why would I want to vote out a wiseguy (or don)? That would just be handing the game to the mucs, pretty much like we did last night.

I am not saying I completely rule out voting against Kash. I am just saying I need
more convincing and a little more evidence than just one post on day one.

Now the ones who have set off my spidey senses are Coler and RB. It seemed pretty blantly obvious to me that there was something going on there. Will be watching those two a little more closely today.

It's not just a PM, Luv. Take a look at what Kashta has done so far, and see if it's not scummy ... As a starting point, it does appear that she may have received a PM, and seemed defensive with TRS's early vote.

In this post, note that she doesn't just defend herself, she decides to go after TRS and strongly call him scum. All baseless crap, based on the fact that TRS threw an early vote her way for editing.

Wow.. I stepped away for a short while and there's two more pages than before. Glad to see we're warming up a little. :thm:

On Red Severum... Dude, you're all over the place. You start out as Mr. Random on us trying to lynch me in your very first post, barely an hour into this game. Most people didn't even know the thread existed yet at that point. Yet you decided right off that bat that you need to try this playing it safe so nobody will challenge you later over you're voting. What could you possibly be hiding so fast??? The only info you had to work with that early in the game was the role assignment JL just sent you by private message.

It'll be interesting to see which direction you pick once your rebel buddies get a chance to coach you along a little better.

Here (below) Kashta points out to me, that earlier, she was just laughing at TRS's 'lame move which is (sadly) very much his style.' Okay. If it's just a lame move, as Kashta believes, why is she coming at him so hard and calling him scum now?

Also note here, that she's now throwing suspicion my way just for suspecting her... She's gotten really OMGUSsy with TRS and myself. OMGUS is an abbreviation for 'Oh My God U Suck'...basically means if you vote/suspect me, I'll vote/suspect you, and it's not a pro-town way to play the game. It says that you don't care who gets lynched, as long as it ain't you. A player truly looking for mafia DOES care who gets lynched, and is less likely to carelessly point fingers everywhere.

There you go, Madcrawdad... that's the alias "Wing Nut" I got to know the last time around. Go back and read my post again. I was laughing at Red Severum for making a very lame move which is (sadly) very much his style... which he has already display quite thoroughly in the many pages of posting that's hit this thread since that point in the game. And here, you've deliberately twisted my reply to make me appear scummy to all the townspeople. You used the exact same approach in the last game on something by adding a little twist that you knew was untrue to deliberately mislead people. Very subtle game play... but very smooth and very suspicious.

Here again Kashta's calling TRS scum...again apparently based upon his 'lame' move. Kinda strong for just a lame move, isn't it?

That's some pretty wild guessing, jpappy. I made the suggestion that Red Severum did receive a PM notice when the game started and it told him... (yikes!) that he's on the rebel team this time around. I didn't forget a thing, I know we didn't get PMs because those only went out to the players assigned as the Don, a wiseguy, or to the rebel team.

Red Severum waited quite a while after that and knew he needed to actually make a post... but was a little intimidated by the new game, perhaps because he's still new to this. So he decided to jump right in with a fairly stupid and totally pointless random vote against me. Was there any useful purpose to be served by that? Nope.. that's all it was.

I'm thinking this looks like a really good explanation in Red's case why he was in such a big hurry to vote against someone like that.... purely out of convenience. For a player who's obviously in over his head (yet again) it's a rather predictable way for him to "appear" like he's doing something, when he really isn't. That's how this guy plays this game.

Those of us who are here from the last game have already watched him behave this way before..... He casts a useless vote right off the bat like he did against me... he flip flops around and bounces here and there a few times over the next 2 days trying to stay out of the limelight until a lynching occurs... and (again) he still can't figure out the proper wording he's supposed to use to "unvote" somebody because he hasn't bothered to actually read the instructions.

Here Kashta again goes after TRS. Granted, she ends up being correct in that TRS's statement doesn't jive with the timeline, but it seems like an awful lot of effort to discredit TRS's 'lame' move. Why? Simply to deflect attention from herself.

Okay Red, so what? I went to check on these posts and to see what the timing looks like. Here's what I found. (This is from the Signup thread. Note that forum shows these time for my time zone which is Pacific time.)



06-06-2009, 7:25 PM - Red posted message in Signup thread saying he hadn't received his PM.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2000783&postcount=154

============

Then an hour went by before our game actually started.

06-06-2009, 7:44 PM - JohnLarson created game thread where he states he's still sending out the PMs.

06-06-2009, 7:46 PM - JohnLarson posted the player listing.

06-06-2009, 8:07 PM - JohnLarson's post "Game On."

06-06-2009, 8:11 PM - JohnLarson's announcement the citizens did not get a PM




============

Then ANOTHER hour and 20 minutes went by before Red posted anything.

06-06-2009, 9:38 PM - The Red Severum made his very first post in this thread casting his vote to lynch me.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196634

============

Then another half an hour went by.... here Red is already back-pedaling about the vote he just placed because he'd just seen that it made me laugh.

06-06-2009, 10:10 PM - Red says he's just kidding around and changes his reasoning to "not liking my avatar."

LMAO. It's all just him being silly.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196634&page=2

Interesting that when Kashta pops on right before nightfall and is catching up, she's not sure where she'll be placing her vote. I wonder, why? She's come at TRS pretty hard, but a vote for TRS won't save her. A vote for Zigman (who I don't believe she had even mentioned to this point) would, though.

Wish I'd been on here earlier.. looks like my posting is what attracted all this attention. Yet the reasoning doesn't make sense. If I was collaborating and communicating, the first thing I would have done after getting such a PM would have been to go collaborate and communicate... not post in the thread.

Those who are on me have it wrong because I'm with the town.. plain and simple.

Trying my best to catch up on the thread and defend myself now, I'm not sure yet where to place my vote.

Here, Kashta votes for Zig for the sole purpose of saving herself, and ADMITS it. According to Kashta, anyone but her is a good lynch...

I know I am innocent so I'll use my vote now to save myself.

I vote to lynch The Zigman.

But let's look at something that Kashta had pointed out earlier. There are certain people in AC that the town wants to KEEP (the Don and wiseguys). Yet she voted solely to save herself without really caring what Zig was. What if Zigman was a Don/wiseguy? Didn't matter to Kashta, when she voted to save herself...to her, any lynch was better than her own.

BKW.. if I was actually the DON, this is not the course to follow for the town to win. You still need to figure out who the good guys are that we WANT to keep in ACville (the Don/wiseguys!) versus who the bad guys are that we're trying to run out of town (the rebels!).

Now here she just spews BS...

I've already pointed out that she's being untruthful here. Last game we were scum together, and I can confirm (with actual links, if necessary) that Kashta posted in the game thread before 'collaborating and communicating' with the team.

Plantling, I am with the town... plain and simple. You guys had me wrong as a PR player because I posted early. This theory seems strange to me. If I'd received a PM and was collaborating and communicating with other players I would have gone off to collaborate and communicate, not post in the thread.

Here's another untruth. She claims that she took TRS's early vote as a joke. Huh? She was all over the guy pointing her finger and calling him scum. Seems like a little over-reaction for something that you thought was a little joke, doesn't it?

She also now claims that her interaction with TRS was a distraction from flushing out the rebels. How is it that she truly believed that TRS was a rebel (as evidenced by the frequency with which she said it) on Day 1, but now he falls by the wayside, as a distraction, immediately on Day 2.

Then TRS posted immediately to lynch me. After the previous game we had just played, I took that to be a joke and I thought it was funny if not a little annoying. So I laughed it off and TRS replied saying it was a joke.

I am sorry that my posting and this exchange with TRS drew so much attention on me. Not only was I gone today and unable to defend myself, this also interfered with our normal flow and our efforts to flush out the rebels.

And now the backtrack on her Zig vote...not just to save herself, but to help the town, too. Oops, she forgot to mention that part earlier when voting to save herself at 2 minutes to midnight.

There's a lot in this thread for us all to review now. We've lost both Zig and Ice who were innocents. I didn't know Zig was innocent when I had to still vote and there was building suspicion against him now which you had raised previously. I was hoping you and the others were right and that my last-minute vote would not just save my neck but also help the town in the process.

Kashta is scum, and my vote will not change.

 

[Madcrawdad]

I don't like what plantling, Coler and RB did either, Z. Of the three, plantling's vote seemed the most illogical, Coler's seemed the most opportunistic, and unfortunately deliberately attempting to be distracting has become RB's MO in a lot of these games. Of the three, Coler's vote concerns me the most.

But if you're concerned about what Coler and RB did, Z, you must think they did it to save Kashta, right? Still makes Kashta a good vote, doesn't it?

I vote to lynch Kashta

Sure it looks like a save for Kashta, but why throw it all out there on Day 1? Even if Kashta was the Don or Rebel (as it could be a Pro or Anti Town save) that would be a hugely noob mistake to expose three PRs so early.

I didn't say that I thought anyone was throwing it all out there. Just pointing out that if you found Coler and RB's moves suspicious, you must have thought there was a purpose behind them... saving Kashta would be the most logical. As I pointed out earlier, Coler's vote concerns me the most, as he seemed to be agreeing with the Kashta votes, yet subtly deflecting attention elsewhere and inventing reasons not to get on Kashta.

I don't want to get into it too deeply, as Kashta's identity hasn't been confirmed through lynch. But if Kashta is lynched and flips scum (which I strongly feel she will), I'd recommend that people also look hard at Dawg, Jbradt, and possibly yourself, Z for expressing hesitation regarding the wagon on Kashta.

 

[ZSandmann]

I didn't say that I thought anyone was throwing it all out there. Just pointing out that if you found Coler and RB's moves suspicious, you must have thought there was a purpose behind them... saving Kashta would be the most logical. As I pointed out earlier, Coler's vote concerns me the most, as he seemed to be agreeing with the Kashta votes, yet subtly deflecting attention elsewhere and inventing reasons not to get on Kashta.

I don't want to get into it too deeply, as Kashta's identity hasn't been confirmed through lynch. But if Kashta is lynched and flips scum (which I strongly feel she will), I'd recommend that people also look hard at Dawg, Jbradt, and possibly yourself, Z for expressing hesitation regarding the wagon on Kashta.

I agree with you then on the principal but just not the certainty of the outcome. I kind of feel we need to lynch Kash after all this just to sort out things, but that isn't a good enough reason. You build a good case though. I certainly am expressing hesitation in running strongly at a Day 1 suspect when presumably two townies already lie dead (still not sold on what happened with Ice and the Mist). So if that makes me a suspect I will have to be a suspect.

 

[Madcrawdad]

I agree with you then on the principal but just not the certainty of the outcome. I kind of feel we need to lynch Kash after all this just to sort out things, but that isn't a good enough reason. You build a good case though. I certainly am expressing hesitation in running strongly at a Day 1 suspect when presumably two townies already lie dead (still not sold on what happened with Ice and the Mist). So if that makes me a suspect I will have to be a suspect.

I think the mist brought Paul to town...

 

[bkw1982]

So far this is what i got as a list

Possible rebel scum
Kash-Being she wasn't hit makes her possible rebel scum (also possible she is tool to be used by the rebel scum, but im leaning scum)

TRS-supposed joke vote for kash, then makes a statement about her playing differently, although the game just started. screws up a vote for coler, then finally leaves a vote on kash. I think he blew a joke between him and his rebel scum friend kash.

Sideline
Plantling- tried to jump to kash to have her lynched. could be good thing or bad bad thing, depends on kash.

I'm fine with a vote on either Kash or TRS