hey guys. I am new to the salt water scene, though I have been in the freshy world for a long while. I acquired a 90 gallon bowfront aquarium. I would like to turn this into a reef, though that will not be for a year when I move to the oregon coast. I am going to light the aquarium with MH and CF. I am going to drill the bottom of the tank for a sump, though I am not fully set on what size tank to place below. I know I have a lot of research to do, but I figured I could ask here first. I am slightly confused about filtration, I do not know if I need to have an open sump, or a wet/dry.. I think I am just confused by so many people saying such different things.
90 gallon bow front
- Thread starter COpathfindin
- Start date
Ptrick125
Learning a lot everyday
A lot of people use sumps... Or a wet/dry filter. Right now I am using a marineland bio-wheel 400
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I guess I could narrow my question down a bit. I am planning to have a reef tank. A few different people, including the owner of the LFS I frequent, stated to me that in a full reef tank you do not require as much filtration as the wet/dry trickle filter provides. That the live sand bed and live rock are responsible for ALL the filtration and the sump is simply to add volume and to hide all the components of the system.
As far as sumps go, the bigger the better, but in a reef environment do I need to trickle filter? Would there be benefit to me using the bio-balls media or even small bits of live rocks rubble in the earlier stages of the tank, then removing them as the tank begins to mature and fill in.
As far as sumps go, the bigger the better, but in a reef environment do I need to trickle filter? Would there be benefit to me using the bio-balls media or even small bits of live rocks rubble in the earlier stages of the tank, then removing them as the tank begins to mature and fill in.
^ ok here we go. I'm on another forum where someone brought up with SW (apparently it doesn't work with FW) that when setting up there tank, they used bio balls etc. Then once the tank was established and mature, they gradually took out all the bio media and now only run mech, and I think chem. There point, like you're saying is all the bio media was to get the snow ball rolling, and once good they removed it and saw a dramatic drop in nitrate production. This is/was ALL new to me so I'll definatly be interested in what everyone has to say. And keep posting on what you find outside of this forum. - N
As I understand it the bio-balls type filtration media will be too efficient at breaking down the nitrites into nitrates. Doing so so fast the filter feeders in the reef system do not get the food they need and you end up having to add more supplements. Which is why I would see the concept of having them there to help start the system off, removing some media every time more life got added to the tank. I am hoping to here some feedback on this from people who have tried before.
I AK prey new to SW myself. I would just totally forego the while bio-balls thing... Everyone that I have gotten advice from said it wasn't worth the headache!! The requirements to keep it simple are live rock, sand (can be live, but doesn't have to be at the beginning, and will eventually become live) really good lighting the mh that you were suggesting may work but there are many other options, such as LED that will help keep the electric bill down and keep the tank from getting to hot!! A couple more things that would be required would be a good quality protein skimmer(reef octopus brand was recommended to me) and an RO/DI unit that will get the water to 0 TDS(total dissolved solids) bulk reef supply has one that is very simple to install and relatively cheap at the low coat of 200$.... Oh yeah you will need some pumps for water movement..... There are other things that are optional such as reactors automatic top offs, but I will let others talk more about them...
As far as size of your sump, I would measure the inside of the stand and see what size tank will fit under it and go with the largest that will fit, but remember you will need room for all of your equipment and your arms to get in there... I don't have a sump, but have read that some people don't do the maintenance on them that they should because they have a hard time getting to everything!!
Good luck!
As far as size of your sump, I would measure the inside of the stand and see what size tank will fit under it and go with the largest that will fit, but remember you will need room for all of your equipment and your arms to get in there... I don't have a sump, but have read that some people don't do the maintenance on them that they should because they have a hard time getting to everything!!
Good luck!
There are many, many ways to start, setup and and maintain a reef. I will not say that BBs/wet-dry won't work because with the right amount of maintenance and livestock balance, they can certainly be viable. However, the over-efficiency/effectivness of BBs or them robbing filter feeders and micro-fauna of food supply is not something I would buy into. In fact, without proper cleaning of the BBs every now and then, nutrient concentrations will likely increase in an aquarium. The amount of detritus and waste that is produced in a reef tank far exceeds anything you would typically find in a FW tank where wet drys are mostly used. This is why many people call BBs "nitrate factories". In a reef or FOWLR, live rock is going to be the preferred method of bilogical filtration. It isn't that you are using "less filtration", its the idea that your decoration (rock and sand) are going to do the work and the use of BBs is redundant and even potentially problematic. LR has the ability to provide surface area for mutiple types of bacteria that allow for ammonification, nitrification as well as some denitrification (depends on the quality (porosity) and size of the rock in the aquarium). BB's will definitely now allow for denitrification.
In short, most hobbiests will do everthing they can to keep it simple by using live rock and supplementing that with mechanical filtartion such as filter socks and protein skimmers and carbon that are easily cleaned/replaced to remove nitrates that are not handled via denitrification bateria. Bio-pellet reactors and refugiums (alage) are other options for nitrate and phospate control. Sumps are great for employing all of these practices while wet dry filter (even with BBs removed) are going to limit the space available and are not nearly as modifiable as a wide open tank that can be setup to suit your needs.
In short, most hobbiests will do everthing they can to keep it simple by using live rock and supplementing that with mechanical filtartion such as filter socks and protein skimmers and carbon that are easily cleaned/replaced to remove nitrates that are not handled via denitrification bateria. Bio-pellet reactors and refugiums (alage) are other options for nitrate and phospate control. Sumps are great for employing all of these practices while wet dry filter (even with BBs removed) are going to limit the space available and are not nearly as modifiable as a wide open tank that can be setup to suit your needs.
Thank you for clearing up that confusion greech. I appreciate it greatly, as I have been given mixed answers from people as of late. I have thought about led, however the fixtures I want are $$$$ and I already have a few MH ballast around from indoor growing. I could easily rig one of my 400 to power 2 175W bulbs. that with my power compact fixture for the actinic and maybe some cheap moon lights. I could be providing the light levels I need without breaking the bank for some led's. This would allow me to enjoy starting the tank, as I save up after my move.
I plan on using a mag drive pump to bring the water from my sump back into the tank, I will be using an ecotech VorTech MP40W for the internal circulation. I do plan on upgrading to ecotech radions, just a matter of money.
I plan on using a mag drive pump to bring the water from my sump back into the tank, I will be using an ecotech VorTech MP40W for the internal circulation. I do plan on upgrading to ecotech radions, just a matter of money.
Completely understand on the LED front. I'm in the same boat. Some of the higher end fixtures are starting to come down and some of the newer fixtures are coming out at lower prices to start so hopefully that trend will continue. $750+ for a 12" fixture is just obsurd! Circulation sounds great! You may need a small pump to supplement the 40 but I doubt it.
what do you mean by this? that I will need to have a circ pump in the sump? Why would that be, I would think the flow from the mag drive and the over flow would be plenty of movement. not to mention the protein and calcium reactors I plan to have in the sump. I know that thinking things through is the biggest step. I have the aquarium, though its not drilled right now. I have the lights, and the 40 breeder I intend on using as a sump. Over the next year I will get the pumps and reactors.
one thought I had was in regaurds to my future move. I do not plan on stocking this tank with anything other then live rock and sand until after the move. my question is would I need to do anything special to the live rock and sand for the move? would it be better to hold off on everything all together?