Are discus right for my water?

discuspaul said:
There are some LFS's that carry & sell good quality discus, but they are the exception rather than the rule.
Most don't. House of Tropicals MAY be one of those few rare ones that do a good job with discus.

Most don't know how to care for them properly, and really aren't concerned about that, since they're relying on getting quick sales for them. And most are on a central filtration system, exposing their discus to all the pathogens & disease in their other tanks.
But it sure wouldn't hurt to ask your LFS where/who they get their discus from, whether it be breeders or export sources in overseas countries - might give you some comfort... or not. Let me know if you wish.

Also, most LFS's only sell younger, smaller discus due to their lower pricing... but as we've already discussed, that's not the kind to buy when you're starting out with discus. Sure, a 2"- $20. discus is cheap, but it's not cheap when it doesn't survive more than a couple of weeks.

On a brighter note, if you don't want to take any chances whatsoever, and get the size & strains you really want, you have (arguably) the best, quality discus supplier in all the U.S. not far from you - Hans' Discus, in Baltimore. He's a major, very highly regarded importer/supplier of superior quality Stendker discus from Germany. He's also a long-time sponsor on the simplydiscus.com forum, where you can look him up, or google for his website, and have a look at his discus gallery. You can't go wrong buying from Hans.
Hope this helps.
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HOT runs individual air driven sponge filters for each each tank so there is no cross contamination on that end. What specifically should I ask for? Like do I want import or home grown? Those kinds of questions so I can gauge if they are any good or not. Their pricing is less then Han's, but they don't have such a beautiful variety. I looked at some of his pictures. It is amazing. $100+ is a bit too rich for my blood. HOT does have full adults that I believe they will sell, they are just kept in their display tanks. I know at least one of the guys there used to own a store in which he sold discus, however I don't know how long his store lasted lol, or the kind of care he took with the tanks. It was a while ago though. Is a 3"+ too small?
 
M00n3at3r said:
HOT runs individual air driven sponge filters for each each tank so there is no cross contamination on that end. What specifically should I ask for? Like do I want import or home grown? Those kinds of questions so I can gauge if they are any good or not. Their pricing is less then Han's, but they don't have such a beautiful variety. I looked at some of his pictures. It is amazing. $100+ is a bit too rich for my blood. HOT does have full adults that I believe they will sell, they are just kept in their display tanks. I know at least one of the guys there used to own a store in which he sold discus, however I don't know how long his store lasted lol, or the kind of care he took with the tanks. It was a while ago though. Is a 3"+ too small?
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Your question is a bit difficult to answer properly.
If they're locally bred, they will likely be small discus - under 3" which I would avoid if I were you.

If they're imported, ask them details of the source of their discus - name of the exporter(s) & their location(s). Imported are usually a safer bet than home-grown by a local breeder, dependent on what/who the sources are.
And of course, another consideration is which type has the strains & coloration you're looking for.

Quite frankly, it's difficult to advise you without seeing pics of the discus they carry - can you take some photos & display them here for us to look at before you commit to them.
If you can, take pics of their 3" fish, and their adult fish, and the prices asked for each group.

If they're 3" or larger (which would be fine for you to start with in your 75 gal, set up in the manner you earlier described) you may be ok. But of course they need to be healthy, well-shaped and from a good source, to be determined from your inquiries. And I would need to have that info & see photos of them, that is if you want my advice on their suitability.

Home grown are good, if they're of sufficient size and from an experienced, reliable breeder.
Imported are generally good too, if they too are supplied by a known reputable exporter.
For example, if the source is from Germany, or Singapore, or Malaysia, or even Hong kong, you'd probably get discus of very good, or reasonably good quality. If the source is from Thailand, or elsewhere, the quality may be quite questionable.
Let me know what you're able to find out and take pics if you can.
 
P.S. Remember, as I said above, home grown from local breeders are good, if they're of sufficient size, and from an experienced, reliable breeder.

The key word here is 'reliable' - the breeder needs to be ethical too.
Unfortunately, many hobbyist breeders keep all of their good stock for future breeding purposes, or for sale to their friends, and sell off to either individual purchasers, or LFS's who will buy them, their 'culls', and/or otherwise less desirable, not well-shaped fish. And many LFS's will buy them because they can get them cheap, and sell them quickly for a good profit. That's the reality of not really knowing the breeder well, and not knowing much about discus quality.
 
Great - thanks for posting pics. That's superb !
Now give me a little time to closely examine the photos, consider the pricing, gather my thoughts, and give you some views on what I think you'd be getting.
Be back soon.
 
I know you're probably looking for, or hoping for, some good news, and I wish I had some, but very honestly I have none.
The bottom line is, your LFS's discus are not only sub-standard quality overall, but overpriced as well- It's not at all impressing, but that's not surprising from an LFS.

The only little bit of good news is that the small various assorted turks (crosses & hybrids as I see it - pics #2, 10, 11, & 12) are seemingly young, appear healthy, are reasonably well-shaped, and show some promise for future development. .... @ $40. however, imo, they are overpriced. - @ $20. I might consider them, even though that strain is not overly popular.

-Pics # 1 & 4 - White diamonds - Would like to know their size, but they look to be no more than around 3".....They appear quite young, but their eye to body ratio is not good & they are undesirably football-shaped - obviously stunted. -- @ $70. they are way overpriced - not worth even half of that.

- Pic # 5 - Red Marlboros - These are some of the worst examples of pigeon-based fish that are very badly & unattractively peppered. They are also stunted and @ $50. - way overpriced. (I wouldn't take these if they were giving them away for free.)

Sorry, but this doesn't speak well for your LFS - I bet they wouldn't give you any, or very little, info about the source of these discus, but quite frankly, they should be ashamed of asking those prices for that kind of poor quality discus.

Please do yourself a favor if you want to keep discus - pay a little more and buy them from Hans - heck, he's only 40 minutes away from you - and you can get excellent 3" specimens from him for around $50. !

Here's what young 3" discus should look like - compare them to your LFS specimens & note the differences:
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/3RedSnakeSkins

In case you haven't seen them before, here's some other album set pics of juvenile or near adult discus that are considered 'good', but by no means 'superior' quality:

http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/redrubys
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/Sept2011
 
Oh, and btw - pic # 6 shows a price tag which reads: quote - "3" assorted discus = $89.95" - unquote
I buy my discus up here in Canada where the prices are traditionally 10% to 20% higher than in the U.S. - and I have never paid more than $70. for high quality 3" discus of a sought-after strain, not anything near the poor quality I see in those pics.

Hope that gives some example of what I'm talking about.
Please be assured I have no intention of "rubbing it in" - my only motivation in telling it like it is, is to hopefully educate and help discus novices avoid being taken advantage of.
 
discuspaul said:
Oh, and btw - pic # 6 shows a price tag which reads: quote - "3" assorted discus = $89.95" - unquote
I buy my discus up here in Canada where the prices are traditionally 10% to 20% higher than in the U.S. - and I have never paid more than $70. for high quality 3" discus of a sought-after strain, not anything near the poor quality I see in those pics.

Hope that gives some example of what I'm talking about.
Please be assured I have no intention of "rubbing it in" - my only motivation in telling it like it is, is to hopefully educate and help discus novices avoid being taken advantage of.
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No no, truly I appreciate it. I am a complete novice so I don't have a trained eye as you do, so even with the comparisons I can't tell the difference. I don't know what to look for. I may be coming into some money soon, so besides investing that would make it easier to buy them. Also might be getting a 90g! As if I need another tank lol. I have one at work, three set up at home and 2 empty at home not including the 90g. Someone is giving it away for free. Can't pass that up!!!
 
A 90 gal is a fantastic size for a discus tank - you could keep 10 adult beauties in that.

Bear with me while I try to help you see/understand the differences between good & sub-standard quality:
(or stunted condition).

- Overall observation:
A healthy discus will very obviously be quite active, alert, curious/ often near the front of the tank, will have good coloration (not pale or very dark), be pert, have sparkly eyes, and fins totally outstretched.
An unhealthy, or substandard quality fish will look lethargic, have washed out coloration (or turn very dark), have clamped fins, shy away & hide out, and may refuse to eat.

- Shape: A good quality discus will have an almost completely round shape (excluding tail fin), while a poorly-shaped or stunted discus' body will be football-shaped. Examples: Pic #4 - white diamonds - the lower right and upper left fish are clearly football shaped - vs. some of the assorted turks' bodies which are round.

- Stunted discus: (Stunting is usually the result of youngsters being grown out under poor water quality & conditions, along with inadequate care & diet) - The main physical evidence of this is a bad eye to body ratio.
In a stunted fish the eyes will generally appear unusually larger than normal in relation to body size.
In a normal healthy discus, the eyes usually sit near the middle of the facial portion of the fish, and when viewed from brow to chin, there should be sufficient space to place approx. 4 to 5, or even 6 more eyes in the space from top of the head to bottom chin position vertically. If less than approx. 4 eyes would fit into that space, &/or if the eye is positioned very near the top of the brow area, then you have a stunted fish. An example of this is the WD in the lower right of pic #4 - note the eye almost touching the brow area at the top of the head.
All of the Red Marlboros appear stunted too.
Hope this helps somewhat.
 
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discuspaul said:
A 90 gal is a fantastic size for a discus tank - you could keep 10 adult beauties in that.

Bear with me while I try to help you see/understand the differences between good & sub-standard quality:
(or stunted condition).

- Overall observation:
A healthy discus will very obviously be quite active, alert, curious/ often near the front of the tank, will have good coloration (not pale or very dark), be pert, have sparkly eyes, and fins totally outstretched.
An unhealthy, or substandard quality fish will look lethargic, have washed out coloration (or turn very dark), have clamped fins, shy away & hide out, and may refuse to eat.

- Shape: A good quality discus will have an almost completely round shape (excluding tail fin), while a poorly-shaped or stunted discus' body will be football-shaped. Examples: Pic #4 - white diamonds - the lower right and upper left fish are clearly football shaped - vs. some of the assorted turks' bodies which are round.

- Stunted discus: (Stunting is usually the result of youngsters being grown out under poor water quality & conditions, along with inadequate care & diet) - The main physical evidence of this is a bad eye to body ratio.
In a stunted fish the eyes will generally appear unusually larger than normal in relation to body size.
In a normal healthy discus, the eyes usually sit near the middle of the facial portion of the fish, and when viewed from brow to chin, there should be sufficient space to place approx. 4 to 5, or even 6 more eyes in the space from top of the head to bottom chin position vertically. If less than approx. 4 eyes would fit into that space, &/or if the eye is positioned very near the top of the brow area, then you have a stunted fish. An example of this is the WD in the lower right of pic #4 - note the eye almost touching the brow area at the top of the head.
All of the Red Marlboros appear stunted too.
Hope this helps somewhat.
Click to expand...

I'm probably not getting the 90g unfortunately as I haven't heard from the person who has it, they will probably end up in my split 75, which is fine. Thank you for the list of what to look for. After reading and comparing I see what you mean now. I think once I can swing it Hans' store sounds like the absolute best option. How many should I get at once? Like should I get all 5 at once or wait a little bit in between adding a couple? Also, for filtration I know in a fully planted tank you can under filter, but since this would only be a couple plants how much filtration am I going to want? And what kind of current do they prefer? I would probably go for a rena xp3.
 
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