My Experience Buying from Live Aquaria

[TwoTankAmin]

I almost never buy fish retail online and never in a brick and mortar store. I usually get healthy fish. However, I have not needed new fish in quite a while. I have bought a few corys for display tanks at my club auctions and from another sller at the swap meet I was selling at last Sept.

But time has caused the loss of some fish in my display tanks as well as amano shrimp. So i did an order with Live Aquaria because they had the lowest price for amanos and i wanted 100. I settled for 56. I also bought 6 small redline barbs, 6 harlequin and 4 espei rasboras at a small size. I spent $207.

Fed Ex was not able to return tracking info, but I was preparing for the arrivals and I caould see the driveway from the window. i actually heard the FedEx truck coming up the driveway and I headed to my front door, I is quite cold here and I put on a hoodie. I expected to meet the delivery guy with the box at the door. Instead he had already put the box down near the entrance. I had the box inside with 30 seconds of when he put it down, the box was quite cold.

When I opened the box the heat pack was barely warm not hot. The bags were very cold and i managed to take the temp of one as i was madly putting the fish into tanks or buckets. The water was about 58F. S I was lucky with the fish they were all alive though not looking real happy. There are 13 DOA amano shrimp and I have the rest in a bucket with floating plants to make sure there are no more deaths. I cannot spot the espei which were very tiny but the harlies and red lines seem OK so far.

Trying to contact Live Aquaria is difficult. I do not own a smart phone and do not text. After being on hold for 15 minutes I got a recording telling me to state the issue and to provide a phone number that can receive texts.

I just kept calling in over and over and finally got as human being. hey are rude, unprofessional. Reseach shows that when fish are in water so cold or so hot it will kill them fairly soon, they way to rescue them is to get them back into the right temp ASAp no acclimation as that will mot likely kill them. So I put all the fish inti tanks and they seem OK, The shrimp are being watched in a bucket a bit as I need pics of the dead ones for a refund.

So if you are considering buying fish/inverts from Live Aquaria I would tell you, Caveat Emptor.

Here is the thing. Almost any of the fish I breed and sell go for more than the price of my entire order. The money here is not imortant to me. What matters is these folks do not deserve their reputation and I would not take free fish from them let alone every buy from them again. Since they bought out DrsFosterSmith (I shopped there a lot) I have shopped for some hard goods with Live Aquaria. I think I need to stop that as well.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Just to provide more information you should see the box in which the fish came. There was no styro, the is what you see in the pic below.



There was crumpled newspaper in the box around and atop the bags. There was a heat pack which was placed on top odf a paper plate in the box. It is a mircacle that all the fish did not die. And if i had followed the instructions to acclimate the fish on the L A site, that likely could have killed most of them. If any fish is in the high or low temperature extreme where it will be killing then pretty soon, science shows that the way to save them is to get them back into water withing thwir normal temp. range ASAP.

I had a box of 20 zebras arrive over a day late with the water in the bags down to 60F. Two fish were DOA. I had alerted the buyer that when the fish did arrive not to acclimate but get them into warmer water ASAP. He did. One more fish was lost several days later but the rest we OK. I was just lucky here as the reline barbs can take cooler tenps as can rasboras, but not that cool. I would guess all the fish were out of their cold bag water within 10 minutes of the box arriving. The shrimp went into a bucket and in their bag water and I removed some to add warm water. There were 13 DOAs as mentioned.

I can now confirm that the tiny espei came out of hiding and all 4 seem to be fine.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The good news in all this is all the fish seem to be doing OK. They have been coloring up and eating. I assume all the shrimp are also OK but I cannot say this for sure as they are quite small and impossible to count.

I got a call from a supervisor at Live Aquaria and we had a nice chat and I think all will work out PK efter the 13 shrimp loss. He also admitted that there should have been a styro and that was their mistake. They also were about to give me a refund for the 13 dead amanos that they calculated wrong in my favor by a lot and I pointed this out to the supervisor. I wanted the refund only for what actually was DOA. They were trying to send me way too much. I may have been ticked off about their packing, but fair is fair.

I also know had I followed their normal advice re acclimating the fish I probably would have seen a lot of dead fish. Sometimes the actual science goes against the beliefs of most. But I have first hand experience that taught me exactly how to save a fish on hr verge of fying because it is at one extreme or the other re temperature.

It boils down to this. If a fish needs to become acclimated to different water parameters to the extent that it undergoes bio-chemical change ti its system that this takes at least a week an often more. In addition, if you read a lot of papers dealing with how fish deal with any number of things that the fish will be acclimated to the water conditions for 2 to 4 weeks prior to the start of the experiment.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

The good news in all this is all the fish seem to be doing OK. They have been coloring up and eating. I assume all the shrimp are also OK but I cannot say this for sure as they are quite small and impossible to count.

I got a call from a supervisor at Live Aquaria and we had a nice chat and I think all will work out PK after the 13 shrimp loss. He also admitted that there should have been a styro and that was their mistake. They also were about to give me a refund for the 13 dead amanos that they calculated wrong in my favor by a lot and I pointed this out to the supervisor. I wanted the refund only for what actually was DOA. They were trying to send me way too much. I may have been ticked off about their packing, but fair is fair.

I also know had I followed their normal advice re acclimating the fish I probably would have seen a lot of dead fish. Sometimes the actual science goes against the beliefs of most. But I have first hand experience that taught me exactly how to save a fish on the verge of dying because it is at one extreme or the other re temperature.

It boils down to this. If a fish needs to become acclimated to different water parameters to the extent that it undergoes bio-chemical change ti its system that this takes at least a week an often more. In addition, if you read a lot of papers dealing with how fish deal with any number of things that the fish will be acclimated to the water conditions for 2 to 4 weeks prior to the start of the experiment.

I do not worry about shipping fish due to the cold. I can pack well and I know how to use heat packs properly. I stop shipping from Thanksgiving week until mid-January due to the volume of X-mas shipping and then post X-mas returns. It is one thing for a sweater to be delayed in shipping for a few days during a cold winter, but it is not OK for a box of live fish to have this happen.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Update- is is about 24 hours later and here is the status. All the fish are still alive, eating and active. They are in two different tanks. The karlies are doing great and the red lines as well. The espei are tiny so I cannot say how well they are doing but they appear OK.

Unfortunately, I removed 4 dead amanos a few minutes ago. There may be more as it is difficult to spot them in the planted tank. I am able to spot plenty of live ones but it is not possible to get a true count. So for sure the total shrimp deaths in transit or w/i a day are now 17 or 54. If I had to bet as to whether there are a few mor dead shrimp or not, I would bet on a few more daead that I am not able to see/find unlt I break down the tank.

Of the 3 species of fish and the one of shrimp, only the redline barbs are able to handle temps a=of about 59F on the low side. The resboras and the amanos generally have the low 70sF for their low temperature. The fish all arrived in a single bag for each one. But I bought 4 x 12 and 1 x 6 shrimp lots. So to have 17 losses means they are from at least two bags or maybe more.

I am sure Live aquaria tries hard but my experience has been such that I still will not buy anything live from them again. I will pay more elsewhere if that is what it means. But I am only buying things for a few of my planted displat tanks which range from 5.5 to 150 gals. The 150 is not getting new fish unless I can find a big big clown to replace the one that recently passed. Nor do I have a need to buy box lots imported or wholesale any more either. But I needed to replace losses as most of my fish have been with me for many years, some for 2 decades.

 

[FreshyFresh]

Good write up.

I haven't mail-ordered anything from the DFS since the buyout by petsmart.

In the end, do you figure you still saved money buying through them?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Here is the problem I faced. The last time I purchased amaos I got 100 as imports. I use to work with somebody who imported and I could ride their orders with things i wanted. The only consideration is fish bought this way are bought by the box. So I bought 100 amanos, 50 redline barbs etc. But I did nit need anything in such numbers. I would have take some CPDs and Mountain Minnows if they had them.

So I settled on the six redlines which the last time I got 50 they were 1/3 the price and 2+ inches. I have kept these fish in one or more of my tanks for over 10 years. I am down to 4 at 6 inches and wanted to start replacing them. I will need to grow the 6 I bought.

I have a few really good LFS within a 30 minute drive or so. But, they cater to a trade which doesn't bother asking the price as it is not a material consideration. To work in these places you must pass a written test. I sold some of my zebra plecos to one of their employees. I have not needed to shop for new fish in a while and what I have gotten came from fish club members or other people I know who bred them.

So this time was unique. The decision of where to buy was between Live Aquaria and Wet Spot. I went with the cheaper price for the amanos as they are not so easy to find in numbers at a decent price. I have them in 4 of my planted tanks. They are closer to me as well.

While the odds are pretty good that I will never buy anything live from, Live Aquaria again, once I got higher up the chain they were reasonable. I will not even submit another claim for the additional dead amanos.

Pricing was not bad compared to retail stores. They admitted their shipping Dept. screwed up the packing and will refund the money for the 13 I did claim. The fish I got are doing OK so far. It is also important to understand that I am a "fill-the-box" shopper. L A offered free shipping for the amount I spent (I checked and that min. is up from when I ordered).

Item Details:
CN-114513	FW - Denison Barb - Medium Group of 6	Qty: 1, Price: $40.46 each = $40.46​
CN-114272	FW - Japonica Amano Shrimp Group -Group of 12	Qty:4, Price:$25.12 each = $100.48​
CN-114271	FW - Japonica Amano Shrimp Group -Group of 6	Qty: 1, Price: $12.56 each = $12.56​
CN-113559	FW - Lambchop Rasbora	Qty: 4, Price: $2.49 each = $9.96​
CN-114505	FW - Harlequin Rasbora Group - Group of 6	Qty: 1, Price: $17.96 each = $17.96​
Subtotal: $181.42​
Next Day Air: Free!​
Box Charge: $9.99​
Tax: $16.03​
Shipping Category 1 Sub-total: $207.44​
Shipments may be delayed due to COVID-19​
Marine, Freshwater and Corals - 1 should ship on ​	Wednesday, Nov. 30, and arrive on Thursday, Dec. 1.

 

[FreshyFresh]

I don't browse or shop my LFSs often. Maybe once a year. Those prices do look good.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I just removed one dead espei rasbora from the tank.

 

[fishorama]

Wow, TTA, I think you've been lucky to only lose some shrimp & 1 fish so far without good packing. It's freaking December! Even where I live it's chilly.
I have only gotten fish by mail a few times over the years. But unlike you, I did slow acclimation over weeks once when the fish were from "liquid rock" to my very soft tapwater. I'm not sure how much it mattered but it made me feel happier my very first time. I've also done your "plop & drop" method from the same place & a couple much closer to my home TDS.

Temp is different than TDS (total dissolved solids). I only slowly add my Q tank water to a LFS bag, it can be quite different TDS but not too far off temp. It also gives me a greater water volume to net the fish out of the bag. I try very hard to not put any "other" water in my Q tank...I don't want any "cooties" I can avoid adding...but I still wait 4 weeks of health to add new fish to my "display" tanks unless I know & trust the source. Never a shop, but maybe a club member if I know them.

This has made me realise I haven't gotten new fish in a long time. I got 2 BN pleco fry from a club friend at a rare outdoor club meet during covid.

That was a good price on denisonii barbs, even for small, I'd be tempted. TY for sharing your experience