Huge plumbing challenge(s) for 50g, Any experts out there? [56K Warning]

[DarkSoul]

The final step to getting fish into my tank, is plumbing my dual Eheim 2213's into the stand, with the included Hydor ETH 200.

As you can see from the pictures, I don't have a huge space to work, and, Ideally, I would like to use solid PVC pipe for most of the plumbing, such as from the intake/spraybar, into the filter cupboard. Also the only place I can functionally put the heater, means more head height for the filters to push.
The filters WILL be hooked up in parallel.

Here is where I need some advice and opinions.

1.) Space - I'm working with a small area. I would like to have both filter inlets Tee'd into a single 5/8" or similar PVC pipe.
I'm considering getting some threaded male adapters, and screwing them into the filter, and connecting both filters to the single 5/8" pipe that comes from my inlet tube in the aquarium.

This isn't so much a problem, What is a Problem, is how am I going to include any kind of quick disconnect system for easy removal. Especially if I'm using solid pipe.

I think Tee'ing off the inlets, and then going straight up to the top of the enclosure, would be the best way to incorporate the included Eheim quick disconnects. Unless someone can suggest another type of quick disconnect better suited to my application.

I'm thinking that if the intakes of the filters are Tee'd, and even plumbed with
pipe (semi) permenantly in place, then I really only need to worry about the filter heads and outlets, since I can always remove the head, and take the media baskets out for cleaning etc.... there is no real reason to be able to remove the cannisters IMHO.

2.) Materials - I'm not totally sure where to find alot of the stuff I need, Or really how exactly I will be putting it all together. I'm the type of person that really needs to see the stuff, and how it will all fit together, and then usually a plan comes into motion.

I was toying with the idea of having a single pipe come into the stand from the back, connect to the top of the Hydor (this is the to connection to the spraybar)

At the bottom of the Hydor, would be an elbow, and a Tee. The Tee would connect to two 45's that will contain the quick disconnects, and then would connect to the filter outputs, using more elbows.

At this point I can see this as my only real option (If it makes any sense) to be able to still remove the filter heads, without spilling water all over the place.

Otherwise my space restricts me from doing something more simple with PVC pipe.

Also, the connections on Hydor, and filters make it hard to use PVC pipe, but I have the tools to heat up, and form the pipe around the connections almost like flexible tubing. Or I could use a hybrid system that will connect the flexible tubing, to the solid PVC pipe.

I hope there are some real genius' out there that can offer some advice, or links to where I could buy the fittings and pipe in the sizes I need.

 

[DarkSoul]

I'm also trying to think of a way that would allow me to run the aquarium water through the UV sterilizer on the other side if need be.

The sterilizer will be connected to the RO unit, and a seperate water "circuit" but if I need to use it for my tank, then it would be cool if there was some way I could take it out of the "RO Circuit" and allow the aquarium water to run through it for a period of time.

The other cabinet will conetain my RO unit, UV sterilizer, and Aquatec 120PSI water pump.

water will come from my household plumbing, into the UV sterilizer, then to the water pump, then into the RO unit, and into a storage tank hiding behind the wall, in my kitchen cabinet.,

This will all be plumbed into the other aquarium stand cabinet, the same size as the one mentioned above.

Why so much? simply control. The more I know about the water, the easier it is to avoid problems, and this all allows me complete control over the water chemistry and lets me KNOW that I am ONLY getting 2 hydrogen molecules, and an oxygen molecule in my water.

 

[ct-death]

I'm going to call you the darkscientist from now on!

You are dealing with some tight spaces there for sure. I will be honest, I'm bit concerned over the water-draw that will be chocked down through the tee and whether or not you will be getting enough water flow into each Ehiem. Also, too on the way out, you certainly do not want any backups even minor flow stopages.

Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but I would consider flex pipe for this application. This way the hose is not the issue (you can clamp to to your cabinet sides) and you have unrestricted in/out-flows individually to each canister as it is designed for. If you are worried about durability, I would go with the 3/4" PEX with the thick wall (I forget the name for it sorry), but it's what a public park would use to get water to an outdoor water fountain (the walls are thicker) - For outdoor use or for burial. It would mean compression fittings or sleeves, but this is what I used for my dad's pond and it works great! Been up for 8 years. I got a 50' roll for less than $75, so I'm sure a 10; foot piece would be reasonable.

I think I know what you are looking for w/ the hard PVC, but it may be too much to ask for in this tight space...?

 

[DarkSoul]

Why do you think my title is "Mad Scientist"

Clenleness is why I want to use the PVC, it is easier to work with, and get mounted securly.
Flexible pipe is a pain in the a** and there are kinks to worry about in such small spaces.

The Tee's I would use to feed the filters, would be reducing Tees.
This way it would be large pipe feeding the filters right down to the Tee, and then it would be 1/2" right into the filter, so the larger pipe feeding the Tee should accomidate enough water flow to the filter itself, not to mention the syphon is rather strong, so getting water TO the filter isn't much of an issue in this case.

The outgoing pipe would be 1/2" all the way back, and my thoughts on this are that it will help keep the pressure in the tubes up if both filters are pumping through a single 1/2" pipe, thus helping the head since its got a fairly long way to go in terms of piping, especially going down to the heater, and back up through the heater, to the tank.

I only have one intake tube and one spray bar, and my background only allows me to have just one of each, I couldn't mount another spraybar.

Im using the larger Eheim installation kit I & II (intake/spraybar) for 5/8" tubing.

I'm not too concerned with spending a bit of cash on odd fittings, the problem is finding the fittings needed, and things that will fit in the tight spaces involved.

The BIGGEST problem that I face here, is getting quick disconnects in there.
I need a way to easily be able to remove the filter heads so I can access the media baskets.

So i'm thinking it would be flexible tubing coming off the filter heads, then going to the proposed Tee that would be connected at the bottom of the Hydor.

The solid pipe also serves to keep the Hydor securly mounted in place, without having to physically mount it using clips or brackets etc.

Adding a valve in the filters intake line would easily allow me to drain water from the filters, before removing the heads, and adding another on the outlet side would allow me to connect a hose with which I could prime the system easily.

The fact that I can't lay the Hydor on its side really hinders me here.

It says not to, but you actually could, so long as you can ensure there would NEVER be any air trapped inside of it, because an air pocket inside the heater creates a hotspot that would crack when the "cold" water touches it.

 

[ct-death]

The BIGGEST problem that I face here, is getting quick disconnects in there.
I need a way to easily be able to remove the filter heads so I can access the media baskets.

So i'm thinking it would be flexible tubing coming off the filter heads, then going to the proposed Tee that would be connected at the bottom of the Hydor.

The solid pipe also serves to keep the Hydor securly mounted in place, without having to physically mount it using clips or brackets etc.

I would agree that this will work, but how big are your hands!?! Seriously, I would agree this is a good way to go. Especially if you can pre-assemble the PVC sections and fit it into place.

I really like the idea of flex-piping the canister up to the inflow tee. This will also give you some twisting ability to pop those disconnects on/off easily and reduce the stress on the joints.

I also like the 5/8" right down to the 1/2 reduction tee - This will defeintely give you the pressure you need, and more.

I'm still a little concerned on the 1/2" out all the way. Any thoughts to going 5/8"? I know the concern over the pressure drop, but I think volume is your killer here, not pressure. The volume difference is huge particularly if you are combining the outflows togther (you're loosing 80% of the space available to move that water)!

I would use 1/2" out to the Tee and then increase your pipe back to 5/8" at the tee-merger. Again, the difference in volume is around 80%. A slight restriction will still result from 2x 1/2" feeds merging into a 5/8" feed, but again that will keep pressure up.

Just my 2cp worth. Have you talked to a local plumber supplier at all? They are usually very good at least on water flows and determining if the 1/2" outfeeds would be okay?

Regards bro, It's looking good

 

[DarkSoul]

I have large hands... why??

As it is right now, I do have the 5/8" model ETH, so I could put a 5/8" elbow/Tee combo on the bottom of it, and run flexible tubing from my filters outlets, to that Tee. the problem here just becomes connecting the flexible stuff to the Tee.... and where do I even put quick disconnects? they are rather large and cumbersome in my resitrcted space. I could try barbed elbows to get the needed 45 degree bend going to the Tee, and place the disconnects in that 45 degree section, if there is enough space.

I could go 5/8" on the outlet side as well, but the problem is finding 5/8" PVC pipe, and fittings for it.

I don't have many plumbers supply shops that I can really have access to (mostly for contractors etc only) and home depot doesn't seem to carry any smaller diameter PVC pipe that I can find.... So I don't know where to buy the stuff.

Also where do I find a reducing Tee for my filters inlet.
Picture number 3 and 4 above are where the T will go. Basically replacing the 2 elbows shown in the picture. the filters would connect to the Tee right at the opening, using only a very short piece of 1/2" pipe to each filter, the main, single input, would be 5/8" all the way to the aquariums intake tube.

The fact that the outlet side would need to drop down to the Hydors inlet, and then back up, and across about 3', and up another 2' or so.... the filters only have a 4' head rating, so using both is the only way to really overcome this, unless I add in another pump, which I dont want to do at this point.

connecting the solid pipe to these stupid compression/screw on/barbed fittings on the filters and Hydor is a very challenging task.... stupid little dumb fittings.

Yes I can heat the solid pipe with a heat gun, and form it over the connectors, but I don't want something that looks like crap, and is all warped and crooked and stuff.
I would need to find something that is the EXACT same diameter as the inside of the tubes, and put it inside the pipe, and fitting to center everything when I did the forming.... and I dont have (access to) a lathe that would allow me to manufacture my own jig.

EDIT
--------
In picture number 3 and 4, the distance between the 2 filter inlet ports, is only about 3" roughly. I can't get an exact measurement.

 

[DarkSoul]

I've just had a good thought, but again, lack the places to buy such things.

Silicone tubing, the really flexible and soft stuff, would allow me to easily connect the filter outputs to the Tee on the Hydor.

Its so flexible and soft that it wouldn't kink when bent like that.

The tubing that Eheim includes with the filters is much too stiff to bend like I would need it to, and allow me the flexibility to move the heads around.

Now where can I buy 5/8" super flexible silicone tubing.... the stuff like the green airline tubing made out of silicone.

 

[Star_Rider]

this got me thinking..those high pressure lines and fitting like on the ro unit..I wonder how large they get..I know they have 1/2" at the hardware store here..(just thinking out loud)

 

[DarkSoul]

this got me thinking..those high pressure lines and fitting like on the ro unit..I wonder how large they get..I know they have 1/2" at the hardware store here..(just thinking out loud)

John Guest Fittings. You can get them in a variet of sizes, up to about 3/4" I believe. I was considering using these in this project, But I think it would e more hassle than its worth for what I'm doing.

Now, when I plumb up my "water purification plant" I will be using a s***load of John Guest fittings, and tubing.... Thats another interesting project in and of itself

I'm having to save money in stages for this stuff lol.

aside from the costly fittings I will need to purchase for both of these projects, the last real costly thing I need to buy is an Aquatec 8842-2P01-S424 ... I found one for $106 USD, But have since lost the link, and be darned if I can find it again.

It will probably cost about $200 for all the fittings for both plumbing projects.

 

[ct-death]

Did I mention my brain hurts!

Here is a great resource for plastics (I use them alot for basically everything):
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/category.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=18308&Page=1&utm_source=google&gclid=CNGrkduVr4sCFQKfYgod6zxgVw&cookie%5Ftest=1

Just make sure to get water-supply grade tubing.

Also, I didn't realize your run was so far. I'm not sure, but I would still try and open it up to 5/8" when able like after the 3' run maybe. Sorry, I always over-engineer things (much like you do obviously) and not being sure here I like to error on the side caution

Compression fittings and me don't like each other, besides this would not be a good idea if there is likelihood of movement constantly such as with your disconnects. Barbed fittings are far superior and have a much higher rating for pressure.

A tip w/ working with this (sorry if I'm repeating): 1)Don't melt the plastic, just make it a tad hot (i.e. you should not be able to mold the plastic with anything less than finger-pressure). It's Not suppose to mold the plastic, but expand it slightly for fitting; and 2) I always use a clamp on my barb fittings. I have never had one leak since!!

Also, on the supply silicone tubing, they are very easy to nick with a sharp edge! The walls will also weaken over time if stretched and bent such as through the constant disconnects and reconnects.

Okay, signing off for the weekend!

Good Luck!