HELP!!!Sudden ammonia spike on a tank that has been cycled for years

[platytetrafan]

I'm glad to hear the fish are fine ! Is the tank planted ?
Still I doubt that there is ammonia in there. 6 small fish in a 36 gallon don't just cause a huge ammonia spike, and you don't kill nitrifying bacteria by not doing water changes for a month. Have you used medications prior to that which kill bacteria?

No I have not done anything different did not add anything to the water except the water conditioner. I did let the tank go a week longer than I usually do to do water changes usually every 2 weeks I do WC's but went a week or two longer. I know am bad but with 7 fish in there I didn't think they would produce that much waste to cause these spikes and it's really pissing me off because after another 50% WC last night I tested this a.m. and still 0.5 ammonia. But the fish are doing fine. The container I use to add the water back to the tank holds approx 4-5 gallons of water. I have been adding 5 ml of dechlorinator to the water in that container each time I add the water back to the tank. When I tested the water after dechlorinating it it tested 0 for ammonia. I am really stumped about what could have caused these spikes. The tank is not planted all artificial plants. Next step after tomorrow's test if ammonia shows up again am taking the water to the LFS see what they say and go from there.

 

[platytetrafan]

I'm glad to hear the fish are fine ! Is the tank planted ?
Still I doubt that there is ammonia in there. 6 small fish in a 36 gallon don't just cause a huge ammonia spike, and you don't kill nitrifying bacteria by not doing water changes for a month. Have you used medications prior to that which kill bacteria?

No I have not done anything different did not add anything to the water except the water conditioner. I did let the tank go a week longer than I usually do to do water changes usually every 2 weeks I do WC's but went a week or two longer. I know am bad but with 7 fish in there I didn't think they would produce that much waste to cause these spikes and it's really pissing me off because I have being doing WC's since mid week last week & after another 50% WC last night I tested this a.m. and still 0.5 ammonia. But the fish are doing fine. The container I use to add the water back to the tank holds approx 4-5 gallons of water. I have been adding 5 ml of dechlorinator to the water in that container each time I add the water back to refill the tank. When I tested the water after dechlorinating it it tested 0 for ammonia. I am really stumped about what could have caused these spikes. The tank is not planted all artificial plants. Next step after tomorrow's test if ammonia shows up again am taking the water to the LFS see what they say and go from there.

 

[the loach]

In a cycled tank, you don't do water changes to reduce ammonia, but to reduce nitrate, hormones, waste etc. Skipping a couple of water changes on a 36 gal tank with 7 small fish does not cause it to 'uncycle' suddenly. You would just have higher nitrates then.

Keep in mind that ammonia levels from at least 0,25ppm would have clearly shown your fish to be in trouble immediately, nor would they all have been fine for a week now.

 

[platytetrafan]

In a cycled tank, you don't do water changes to reduce ammonia, but to reduce nitrate, hormones, waste etc. Skipping a couple of water changes on a 36 gal tank with 7 small fish does not cause it to 'uncycle' suddenly. You would just have higher nitrates then.

Keep in mind that ammonia levels from at least 0,25ppm would have clearly shown your fish to be in trouble immediately, nor would they all have been fine for a week now.

Well I brought the tank water over to my local Petland Discounts Store and they tested the water right infront of me and told me that because although ammonia levels are never good for fish since I have been doing them daily the fish become acclimated to it. Dechlorinated tap water using Aqueon water conditioner tested negative for ammonia after adding it to the container that I used to refill the tank early yesterday morning. Today LFS got a reading of ammonia between 0.25 and 0.5 nitrite 0 nitrates 0 ph 7.6.

I decided to buy Seachem Prime and Seachem Stability and will add it to the tank water. I purchased these products at Petco a few mins ago because Petland did not have these products. At Petco they also told me to add the Stability to the water in my cartridge filter. I am going to be setting up my QT as well so instead of removing the filter I had in my peguin 200 for the QT am just going to innoculate the water with stability instead. Since 36 gallon has been established for some time should I innoculate with stability as it says on the bottle adding one dose and then daily for 7 days? I have to start out with atleast 20 ml for a 36 gallon and add prime as directed.

Since I did a WC yesterday LFS told me not necessary to do another one and that I could add both products directly to the tank water once doing that they told me to wait atleast 24 hrs or more to test the water again which makes sense do you agree? They also asked me about the existing Penguin cartridge filter it is still in good shape I have not changed it out and not sure how much carbon still exists in it. I haven't rinsed it in a while did not want to wash away bio media. One thing I did think about when I was doing WC's every 2 weeks I was washing down the sides of the tank with a tank scrubber using tank water in the tank ofcourse but could I have been overdoing it? Hoping these products do the trick. Sorry this is so long just a little stressed trying to get a fix on things and also since I am adding a product to eliminate ammonia how do I know that my tank water is testing 0 ammonia because nitrifying bacteria is doing the trick and not just the product? Wish me luck and thanks for the continuing advise

 

[fishorama]

No, there isn't an ammonia level that's safe for fish. But I forget, what test are you using? If your tap water has chloramines it will show ammonia on most tests. Prime & some other dechlors "lock up" ammonia into the safer form of ammonium for 24-48 hours.

So, you need to either do major water changes every 24-48 hours or redose Prime (or similar) that often.

Look up "old tank syndrome"

 

[the loach]

Well I brought the tank water over to my local Petland Discounts Store and they tested the water right infront of me and told me that because although ammonia levels are never good for fish since I have been doing them daily the fish become acclimated to it.

Lol, contradictory statement of the day? It makes me wonder whether hobbyists would be better off if those shops would just employ random people who say they don't know and are just there to sell stuff.
Whatever they sold you won't hurt, but something is missing here there is no way you get a 4ppm ammonia reading and all the fish are just fine.

 

[platytetrafan]

Lol, contradictory statement of the day? It makes me wonder whether hobbyists would be better off if those shops would just employ random people who say they don't know and are just there to sell stuff.
Whatever they sold you won't hurt, but something is missing here there is no way you get a 4ppm ammonia reading and all the fish are just fine.

I know ammonia at any level is not good for the fish totally understood...and I thought it odd that the employee at LFS was telling me that fish acclimate to ammonia when I know it's not good for them. Just quoting what he said to me. I am just very frustrated because I have had this tank up cycled since 2005 and from time to time with a heavier fish load I would get a spike from possiblly overfeeding but with gravel vac and wc's I always got the ammonia level down to 0 and never got a 4.0. I have done WC's since last Tues or Wed 75-50%.

I was using test drops that might have been a little old so I bought a new fresh box the API brand I always use and still got ammonia levels of 0.5- 1.0.. yesterday the LFS guy got what looked like 0.25. So I added 20 ml to the tank water + another 5 ml to the filter cartridge of stability and 5 ml of Prime. My question is the LFS told me to wait 24 hrs atleast or more to retest that the Prime takes that long or more to change the ammonia to a non-toxic form safe for the fish. So when to do another water change since I do want to give the prime time to work and since I am trying to rebuild up my nitrifying bacteria should I follow the directions on the bottle of stability and dose for 7 days? Biggest question would be and I might be answering this myself but once I do do a water change continue to add stability each time. I have gone over in my head everything I have done and not done that could have caused this ammonia spike to happen. I was feeding my fish every other day sometimes every 3 days trying to prevent a spike but small amounts or so I thought other than that I come up with nothing except over using the scrubber possibly over feeding & going a little longer than I usually do to do a water change this last month or two. Other than that I have done nothing from my usual routine added nothing to the tank prior to adding the products I mentioned. I just hope I can get this under control since I know that prime is just a temporary fix and I need a permanent one I have not fed my fish since last Tues or Wed so hoping once I see the prime is working I will feed them very small amounts.

 

[the loach]

Just some questions to get better insight what is going on...
How did you notice those ammonia spikes in the past, by the fish acting up, or just from regular testing? Can you post pictures of the tank, the fish and the filter? Have you considered live plants? If Stability has good nitrifying bacteria they should get rid of the ammonia within a day or 2 (if there is any, and then there still will be a nitrite spike)

 

[platytetrafan]

Just some questions to get better insight what is going on...
How did you notice those ammonia spikes in the past, by the fish acting up, or just from regular testing? Can you post pictures of the tank, the fish and the filter? Have you considered live plants? If Stability has good nitrifying bacteria they should get rid of the ammonia within a day or 2 (if there is any, and then there still will be a nitrite spike)[/QU

I tested that's how I would see a spike of ammonia sometimes if I noticed the fish were acting strange I would definitely test and usually if I did a WC the ammonia level would go right back down to 0 but I had a much larger fish load and I always used drops. I don't do live plants because I have no idea how to care for a planted tank is hard enough for me to maintain one with live plants. The filter is a 200 penguin HOB and my tank is a 36 gallon bow. Ok so my question answered is to test after 48 hrs for ammonia and nitrite and ofcourse if nitrite is seen WC definitely. Stability as anaerobic and aerobic bacteria in it. I am going to give the tank another dose of it tonight as I did last night. The bottle does say to treat for 7 days so I can't see anything wrong with doing that especially after 48 hrs will retest for ammonia and nitrite do WC and add more stability and hopefully once nitrite is seen and converts to nitrate I will make sure to do regular WC's can't let this happen again.

 

[platytetrafan]

My tank is a 36 gallon bow with a 200 penguin HOB filter Stability has both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria in it. I am going to dose again with Stability it can only help not hurt. After 48 hrs will retest again for ammonia and nitrite if I see nitrite will WC and add more stability. The bottle does say to add for 7 days for a new tank but because I am having these issues with a tank that has been cycled since 2005 and a smaller fish load then I usually have in the tank can't see the harm in adding more stability daily. Wish me luck will let you know how it goes. In the past if I went 1 week or two beyond my usual WC I would test for ammonia if I got a small spike with a larger fish load usually WC would bring it right back to 0 without adding anything. I would also test if my fish acted strange which was not often and I did not make it a habit of not doing regular Wc's every 2 weeks sometimes I would extend if I was too tired to do it but that did not happen often.