10g stocking and cycling questions...

[MilitantBob]

I am looking into starting a small 10g tank. I was wondering if any of you guys could prescribe some suitable, hardy, easy to find fish that would work in a 10g. Bassically, here are my questions:

1.) What type of fish/how many fish should I keep in my 10g tank? I would like a spattering of small colorfull fish and maybe a slower fish or two, possibly something not a fish at all (crab, frog, shrimp, etc.) Please, give as many different set-ups as you can think of that would be good for a newb.

2.) I plan on going fishless with my cycle and I was wondering if there it would be a good idea to ask my LFS (which is petsmart (or possibly petco) by the way) for some tank material (I.E. gravel, filter media, or mabey even a toy or plant to jump start the problem. My only concern is that often times pet store tanks can be very unhealthy environments when it comes to diseases and whatnot.



Thanks in advance.


PS: If any of this doesn't make sence I won't be suprised, it is 3:38 AM here in Houston, Tx and I am a little punch drunk...


EDIT: I also have a friend that has an old 30 gallon tank he has no more need for, but it is in questionable condition. Here are my questions concerning that:

3.) The tank was previously used as a terrarium for some snake or reptile or something, not really certain. Is there any problem with that? Are there any weird reptile bacteria that can't be killed with hot water that I need to be worried about?

4.) Also, it is dirty due to lack of proper cleaning, I have already tried warm water and a rag, but I need stronger. What kind of cleaning product cna I use to get what appears to be stains or hard water marks off the side of a tank?

Thanks in advance.

 

[happychem]

4) I've heard OrionGirl recomend Oxyclean. She's got about as much fishkeeping knowledge as I can imagine, so yeah, go with that.

Also, if you plan on doing a fishless cycle, you can use pure ammonia, I say pure not for concentrations, but meaning, not surfactants, detergents, perfumes, etc. Ammonia, water, perhaps some chelates...

3)Between a good thorough cleaning and ammonia, you should be good. Take your time, be thorough. Clean the whole thing very carefully. While you're at it, check the silicone. Make sure it's still springy and stuck to the glass. If it's hard or doesn't bounce back up when you push on it, you'll need to resilicone or get a different tank.

Other than that, your buddy's tank is fine.

2)You can ask, but you're right, conditions aren't great. More to the point, they may not be cool with it, being a big chain, but do ask anyway. Try to get some old filter media, unless they're on a big central filter. There must be an indipendant place in a city as big as Houston!

1)My 10g has 3 swordtails, they make for a nice red/orange (red male, orange females). Be sure to get only 1 male, the tank is too small for more than 1 male. 2 Albino corydoras, which are kinda pink. And 1 ghost shrimp, I plan on increasing the numbers.

I feel that gives me a good stocking. I've got 3 mid level fish that swim around, hassle each other a bit and are basically quite attractive and active. The corys make for a good cleanup crew along with the shrimp. And having the shrimp around gives both a different kind of critted to look at/for and a lower bio-level to keep the tank clean.

 

[tomm10]

Welcome, Bob.

I'm in agreement with happychem on the Oxyclean and the 30g tank. Oxyclean works great and it doesn't leave a harmful residue once rinsed. You could use a bleach solution but then you'd have to go through dechlorinating everything thoroughly. Otherwise the 30g should be fine as long as its an aquarium and not a terrarium. Tanks made for reptiles are generally made from a thinner glass and can't support the weight of water.

Assuming the 30g is an aquarium, I would make that your first tank over the 10. Its more water which will allow a little more room for error in terms of water stability. It will also alow a lot more options for fish.

Skip asking a chain store for filter media. They won't do it (most likely). A local shop on the other hand, should be able to give it to you. Get filter media if you can. Decorations and gravel don't help as much.

As for fish, if your fishless cycling a school of tetras would be nice they're colorful and small enough to work in a school in your tanks. If you go with the 30 you could look at a pair of Rams. Amano shrimp are fun to watch and great cleaners/algae eaters. Stay away from crayfish and crabs in a community tank. Crayfish will have the leaning to kill other fish and crabs need brackish water and a place to get out of the water regardless of what the guy at Petsmart might say.

A bristlenose (not a common) pleco would do well in a 30 but might be a stretch in a 10. Cory cats would do great in either (get at least three as they need company to thrive)

Tom

 

[MilitantBob]

Thanks for the tip on the oxy-clen, it really did the trick, it is just too bad that my friend has no idea what he is talking about. The tank he thought was 30g was just another 10g.

Oh well, I have another 10g tank now.

Anyways, about the stocking, I really like the idea of the corys, I like the looks of most of them, but would like some more advice on the rest of tank from your fish-gurus.

I am mainly looking for some hardy, easy-going fish that are easy on the eyes and have some interesting behavior (is that all? ) Anybody care to offer their pick for the middle/top fish in my tank?


PS: I stopped by the petstore today (a real petstore, not petsmart, I found one that appears to have its act together) and saw both amano (sp?) and ghost shrimp. What is the difference and what will meld best with my tank?


Thanks in advance.

 

[kikuchiyo]

Bettas are gorgeous and have some personality; if I had money and time for a 10 gal now (college kid can't drag something that big to my dorm and back every where) I'd get one as kind of a centerpiece fish. Some catfish (which need to be in a group) and a very small school of peaceful tetras might work out well. Bettas tend to stay at the top of the tank, though all the males I've known are willing to investigate what ever is going on in the tank. They have very endearing personalities and exhibit a lot of interesting behavior, including making bubblenests (well, in still water) flaring at their reflection or at a mirror (you can hold one up to the tank for a few minutes a day and watch him go at it). And they're very hardy and laidback (it's late in this part of the world and my betta Toshiro has wrapped himself around a plant to rest). Plus you can't beat the good karma of rescuing one of the little guys from those hideous little cups they're kept in and giving them a nice big home. Keep in mind you'd add the catfish last, as they don't put up with bad water well, whatever the community ends up being (ditto neon tetras).

Dwarf Gouramis are cuties too, but they're a little pickier than bettas from what I hear.

Another option might be a New World tank with a few guppies, platies, and catfish - male guppies are adorable and there are are some stunning color morphs for the platy; in anycase, you'll have a lot of fry from both (that can act as live food or that you can raise). Platies and guppies move all around the tank. They don't need schools, but one male and a few females of each would work out well.

Some good top level fish are Zebra Danios. They're next to indestructable and cheap, but active and good looking (especially the light colored long finned variety). Again, not entirely sure if that's feasible because zebras school and I'm not sure if you could make a small school in a 10 gallon (though the ones in my Biology lab are in a 10 gal and look good enough). They're nippy and active and probably wouldn't mix well with guppies and most likely they wouldn't get on with a betta (they'd nip him and stress him out by being so active).

My folks are from Bangladesh and I've always wanted to have an Indian/South East Asian tank with fish like gouramis, bettas, and loaches (not all together of course) - would a small group of khulis be too much for his 10gal? They're very interesting fish, snake like in apperance and very clownish in groups. They're most defintely happier in groups and they're a lot like cory catfish in how they ought to be cared for (except they like to hide and you need to keep an eye on them so they don't get stuck in places like the filter).

Just suggestions of some fish I understand are to be easy to keep, people who know more than me will correct me if I said anything incorrect, I'm sure.

 

[happychem]

Excellent! Now you've got a quaranteen/fry tank and a display tank!

If you're just starting out with fish, some good ones, picked from the above selection:
platies, danios, guppies, swordtails are all good choices, very tough, IME but colourful and entertaining.

Betta's are good too, but I think that 1 betta would probably take the place of 2 or 3 of any of the above. A 10g tank starts looking really small once you start thinking stocking.

In your shoes, I'd put 3 cories and 3 of one of the first group.

Well, actually, I did, but I was overstocked for a long time. Take a gander at this: 2 adult swords, 4 younger, 3 albino cories and 2 common plecos! In a 10g! Absurd, but no one really told me any better. Tank maintenance was a nightmare, not to mention that I started with an incandecent canopy (worst thing ever).

What type of substrate do you have? I'd suggest going with something between 2-3mm in diameter. You can get a ton for free if you've got a quarry nearby, just ask them if they have anything in that size, silica, not carbonate! They'll probably give you a free sample. I suggest this because at some point you're gonna want live plants, and starting with this size substrate will make your life much easier when that time comes.

 

[MilitantBob]

Originally posted by happychem
Excellent! Now you've got a quaranteen/fry tank and a display tank!

If you're just starting out with fish, some good ones, picked from the above selection:
platies, danios, guppies, swordtails are all good choices, very tough, IME but colourful and entertaining.

Betta's are good too, but I think that 1 betta would probably take the place of 2 or 3 of any of the above. A 10g tank starts looking really small once you start thinking stocking.

In your shoes, I'd put 3 cories and 3 of one of the first group.

Well, actually, I did, but I was overstocked for a long time. Take a gander at this: 2 adult swords, 4 younger, 3 albino cories and 2 common plecos! In a 10g! Absurd, but no one really told me any better. Tank maintenance was a nightmare, not to mention that I started with an incandecent canopy (worst thing ever).

What type of substrate do you have? I'd suggest going with something between 2-3mm in diameter. You can get a ton for free if you've got a quarry nearby, just ask them if they have anything in that size, silica, not carbonate! They'll probably give you a free sample. I suggest this because at some point you're gonna want live plants, and starting with this size substrate will make your life much easier when that time comes.

Thanks for the advice! I thinks that is what I am gonna do, the only question is what kind from the group mentioned above and what type of cory, but that is jus up to my personal preference.

Just 4 more questions and then I am set to go (after I cycle of course)

1.) Is a bio-wheel nescessary for this size/type of tank?

2.) Has anybody had any success with those little aquarium plant bubls you can get in walmart and petsmart? I grabbed some of the variety that said they grew the quickest and hardiest and dropped em in, but I would like to know what to expect.

3.) I just realized that the kit I bought didn't come with a heater like I thought it did, so is a heater nescessary and if so how many watts should I get for this size tank?

4.) What temp should my tank be at?

Thanks in advance, you guys have saved my alot of frustration by answering these questions for me.


PS: In case you where wondering the type of plant the walmart bubl was, it was a Hardy Hybrid Aponogeton. Thanks again!


EDIT: I just saw some tiger barbs at my lfs that looked really nice, any chance I could make a group of them work with a couple of corys? Or would that pick on the cory and just generally not be happy?

 

[kikuchiyo]

For heaters, the general rule, if I'm not mistaken is 5 watts per gallon. If I could make a recommendation, 2 25 watt heaters (I use a Hagen 6" submersiable and like it at lot, I've seen them for 10 bucks a pop on thatfishplace.com and 15 at petsmart) would be great; then if one went south you'd have time to fix the problem before you had fish soup.

I'm also interested in those Wal-mart bulbs, I'd love to throw a couple in my betta tank. Anyone have any experience?

Some people swear by bio wheels, others dislike them. I've had a little experience with them, but overall I think they make good biological filters (you'd still need something for mechnical filtration - the marineland hoods have both) and they negate the need for an undergravel filter.

As for temp, the fish you're looking at are very hardy, but from 72-78-ish would be best, I think. Whatever temp in that range you hit, make sure it stays relatively steady.

 

[MilitantBob]

Originally posted by kikuchiyo
For heaters, the general rule, if I'm not mistaken is 5 watts per gallon. If I could make a recommendation, 2 25 watt heaters (I use a Hagen 6" submersiable and like it at lot, I've seen them for 10 bucks a pop on thatfishplace.com and 15 at petsmart) would be great; then if one went south you'd have time to fix the problem before you had fish soup.

I'm also interested in those Wal-mart bulbs, I'd love to throw a couple in my betta tank. Anyone have any experience?

Some people swear by bio wheels, others dislike them. I've had a little experience with them, but overall I think they make good biological filters (you'd still need something for mechnical filtration) and they negate the need for an undergravel filter.

Thats good to hear, I already have those bulbs in there, they haven't done anything yet, but it has only been one day. I also don't have any plant lights or plant fertilizer.

The more I read about tiger barbs, the more I think I would really like some. Any chance to have a tiger barb/cory tank in a 10g?



EDIT: Also, do the heaters go underneath the substrate or do they attach to the side of the tank?

 

[kikuchiyo]

Originally posted by MilitantBob
Thats good to hear, I already have those bulbs in there, they haven't done anything yet, but it has only been one day. I also don't have any plant lights or plant fertilizer.

Keep me posted on that. I have flourscent lights in my 2.5 gallon, but nothing extra. If they grow, I'd be happy to replace the fake plants in my tank now.