2 Questions on fishless cycleing

[d44hook]

OK my 55 Gal tank has been set up for three days now. I initially added 1/2 cup of ammonia and after testing the next day it was 8+ on my scale. I did a 50 % water change and the next day I was between 4 and 8.

My questions are: Today I noticed cloudiness in my tank and I am assuming that this is good and the start of my cycle. My question is how long before I should notice an ammonia drop and an initial nitrite reading as nitrites are 0?

My second question is water temperature. I read somewhere where having the temp 80 or better would facilitate the cycle process is this true and what temperature would you suggest?

TIA

 

[daveedka]

In answer to your first question, the cloudiness is probably the estabilishment of something in your tank, but doubtful it is the nitrification bacteria you are looking for this quickly. there are plenty of other things that need to estabilish and balance out, and cloudiness is common. If you did not add a good starter colony of bacteria, the cycle will take 1-3 weeks before you see any change in ammonia levels. This is usually the slowest reaction period you have if starting from scratch.
I do not know for sure if temp really makes much difference in cycle speed, Within normal tank temp ranges at least. You do want temperature at tropical tank levels, beyond that I doubt you'll see a big difference between 76 and 80 degrees.
Dave

 

[mishi8]

It depends on whether you seeded your tank or not. If you're starting from absolute scratch, expect the cycle to take at least as long as a traditional fishy cycle, if not longer since you are trying to develop a biofilter to support a full tank of fish. So it could be a couple to a few weeks before you see ammonia starting to drop and nitrites starting to rise.

I used a temp of between 82F and 84F for my fishless cycle.

Be careful not to use too much ammonia. That can stall the cycling process. Best to be closer to 4ppm rather than 8ppm.

Mishi8

 

[d44hook]

Geez I did forget to add that yesterdayIseeded with 1 cup of gravel (friend has UGF) and he also gave me a small rock from his 110 gal.

 

[pitthull]

I did a fishless about 6 weeks ago on a 36g and just started another on a 3g for my office. On my big tank, I started with around 3/8 of a cup of ammonia and the entire tank clouded up -- looked like I had dumped a glass of milk into it. This went away within 6-8 hours and because I was only adding about 25 ml a day after I got the cycle started, I never saw it again. When I did the initial dose to my 3g, the water didn't cloud at all -- but I obviously used a lot less to start. I'm sure this is NOT a sign that the cycle is starting -- I guessed it was a reaction of the significant quantity of pure ammonia with other chemicals in the tank (I used Cycle initially with the big tank and AquaSafe as my conditioner).

I also read that raising the temperature helped cycle faster -- and I raised the temp in my 36g to about 85 for the course of the cycle -- I cycled pretty fast but I also cheated -- using filter floss from an established 5g -- I think my cheater bacteria played the significant role -- but the higher temperature didn't hurt me either. I haven't even installed the heater in my little tank yet so I'm going at it without the temp increase.

Adding the gravel from your friends filter may or may not help -- I'm not convinced of the effectiveness of that technique yet. If I were you, I'd try to get a piece of your friend's filter to add to your tank. The established filter trick has really helped me out.

 

[daveedka]

Gravel from an Active UGF is (or should be) highly colonized bio-media. A cup of gravel will not give you a huge jump start, but it will make a noticeable difference. Gavel from a standard tank will not be colonized as As heavily, but will still contain some bacteria. UGF gravel should be as good or better than filter floss from an HOB.
As soon as you see detectable levels of Notrite, I would borrow another cup of gravel and add it at that point. I also agree that your ammonia should be below 5 ppm. It won't have an adverse effect on the first stage of the cycle, but the nitrite eaters don't like high ammonia.
Dave

 

[rrkss]

Fishless Cycle

When I did my fishless cycle, I initially added 4 ppm ammonia (Pathmark Brand Clear Ammonia) and 1 teaspoon of Arm and Hammer unscented baking soda per 30 gallons (To prevent a ph crash caused by the high amounts of Nitric Acid produced from the fishless cycle: This was a one time addition). I then waited for the ammonia drop which took about 10 days. When my water tested at 0 ppm ammonia, I added 2 ppm ammonia everyday and before I knew it, the ammonia tested at 0 24 hours after I added my 2 ppm. I tested nitrites and they were getting higher and higher. About 12 days later, my nitrites dropped from 25 ppm to 0 ppm over the course of 3 days. I then did a 100% water change making sure my water temperature was the same as the tank water (82 degrees farenheit), let the water de-gass for 24 hours without adding any ammonia (Nitrifying bacteria are able to survive for 48 hours without food before going into stasis (hibernation)) and after that I put in my full fishload and have yet to see any ammonia or nitrite in my tank. Just be patient. The tank will do nothing for a long time and then all of a sudden, the ammonia/nitrite levels will plummet.

One of the benefits of fishless cycling is seen after you add your full load of fish to the tank. Usually, the fish you buy from the store contain ich (just my experience) and defeating ich is very easy when you have a strong biofilter set up. Another benefit is that your tank has the full stock of fish in it and therefore you don't need to worry about introducing pathogens to the tank as you slowly increase your stock to the desired amount. Saved me the hassle that my first tank endured where my tapwater was crap (0.5 ppm ammonia/0.25-0.75 ppm Nitrites), fish with ich and an uncycled filter = very hard to cure ich. In my second tank, I was able to rapidly cure my ich. I will never cycle with fish again.

 

[d44hook]

Thx everyone for the help and replys. I tell you its so hard to be patient. Constantly worrying about if the ammonia is lowering and if the cycle is starting right and not seeing any chnages has been my hardest endeavor so far. I have been doing twice a day tests and having to actually restrain myself from doing more. I guess I just need to relax and trust in whats happening and wait to see some kind of change in tests. Whew man it sure is hard waiting tho LOL

 

[mishi8]

I recommend testing no more than once per day. Pick a time that is convenient for you...test, add ammonia as needed, then leave the tank alone until the same time the next day. If you need to focus on the tank, maybe instead take that time to plan and thoroughly research the fish you would like to keep.

 

[daveedka]

I recommend testing no more than once per day. Pick a time that is convenient for you...test, add ammonia as needed, then leave the tank alone until the same time the next day.

I agree, Relax a little. remember that there are only couple of things that can really go wrong, and its almost written in stone that water with ammonia in it will grow bacteria. View it as inevitable. Research other info, and get ready for the day when the cycle is done.

If you need to focus on the tank, maybe instead take that time to plan and thoroughly research the fish you would like to keep.

This is one of the best things about a fishless in my opinion. It is hard to chose fish sometimes, and impulse buying is rampant in the hobby (I do it) the fishless gives you time to research, plan, change your mind, discover new options, and research some more. there is nothing worse than stocking a tank to capacity and then finding the coolest fish you ever saw the next day. It's so much easier to change your mind before you bring home the fish. Additionally, many LFS's will hold fish for you. you can stop and look at them, observe their behavior and condition and stand a better chance of buying healthy fish. Lots of good things to do while fishless cycling.
dave