A possible crazy idea?

[BiggerWurm]

I am looking for help from anyone who has moved to a larger tank and added media. I want to put am layer on sand on the very bottom of my tank and use the a aragonite to seed it that i already have so it would be about 2 inches. But my plan although it my sound crazy is to use pvc and egg crate to create a kind of deck to hold the live rock elevated of the gravel. It would have a 1/2 to and inch of clearance between the gravel and rock. I will drill large holes into the pcv to allow all the sand stirres to still be able to get in the legs and out. I know that if there is no flow under the (deck) that a bunch of food and other organics would become trapped but i will use a powerhead or 2 with a spray bar to keep a very small but constant flow under the rock. I also will have room for the snails and hermits to go under and feast. I have alot of live rock and will not have a problem seeding the sand. My questions are.

1. Does anyone see major problem from putting the sand on the bottom and what grain size should i use.

2. Is this stupid to not have the rock touch anywhere because some people still run no gravel.

3. Has anyone tried something like this or read of a failed tank somewhere with similar ideas.

4. Can anyone think of ways to modify this idea to make it better using anything but the plenum.

5. I will incorparate heavy skimming to start with but would like to eventually add a refugium and use all natural filtration.

 

[OrionGirl]

I would use a full deep sand bed---an additional 2-3 inches more. Otherwise, I think you'd be fine. Instead of drilling the pipes, I would cap them completely off to keep sand and water out of there--the sand will be able to pack in tighter than critters could penetrate, IMO.

I don't think it will matter too much that the rock is elevated. Might mean you'll get a truly amazing amount of sponges growing under there, and many fish will hide out down there. I am not sure there's a benefit from this...

 

[BiggerWurm]

OrionGirl,

So your saying use more sand which is not such a bad idea. Do you think i need more with about 200 hundres pound of live rock in there to help with the filtration and a refugium i have never used dsb but i know the organisms need room to grow. I would put the sand on the bottom and the live stuff on top or shoul i mix it together. What kind of sand? I have aragonite the bigger grain stuff not really sand and garf grunge which has all different sizes. Also capping them would be good too didn't think of that. the reason i want lift the live rock is because you create dead zones where ever rock touches the gravel or so i have read in magazines and in my reef books. water won't flow under them and then what ever is there from the beginning is in for the long haul. If everything is lifted a worm for example will be able to go from one end to the other which will promote movement and population explosions. I can see one corner of my 90 show tank that has a dead zone look going on and it has scared me to move quicker into a bigger tank even though my parameters are all great plus i have completely run out of room. I am not really worried about fish them hiding under there because if they want to hide and it makes them happy go for it this would be great for madarins to hunt in without being bothered. Only bad part i see is if the fish died and was under there but i have had fish die and never seen them again with no change in Ammonia, nitrite or Nitrate.

Thanks Again for the help

 

[OrionGirl]

Usually, when setting up a DSB, I've always used some rock that goes clear to the bottom and sits on egg crate. Then you stack rock on top of that, and sand goes around the rock, so you don't have big areas trapped under the rock. However--worms and little critters will still dig around under that rock.

As for the grain size, smaller is better. A pound of sand has lots more surface area than a pound of pebbles. I would concentrate the live stuff on top--the living critters and bacteria will migrate and colonize their preferred zones.

The deep sand bed creates areas with minimal water movement, where nitrates are broekn down. Without a deep enough bed, this can't happen as efficiently.

Even with the raised rock bed, you won't be gauranteed of a supply of food for a mandarin. I prefer keeping mandarins and scooters in tanks with out any fish that will compete for food (ie, a FO tank, or an invert tank).

 

[BiggerWurm]

OrionGirl,

I think you have some valid points and will use the thicker sand beds. If i have the madarin what exactly would you consider competion. I only have a dusky jawfish in there right now and was planning on adding.

1 blue hippo tang
2 percula clowns mated pair
2 convict blennies/goby there neither but i don't know what i read they really were.
6 line wrasse =possible competition
Coral banded shrimp mated pair if the dusky won't eat them kind of risky 50/50 will try a large cleaner shrimp first
neon gobie or two
maybe a flame hawk

you think it would starve? No experience with dragonets or scooters but love the way the look and don't want to kill anything else.

Thanks again

 

[Water World]

Big:, OrionGirl is right on with the DSB!! Go with a 2" sandbed lay your egg create, then several more inches of sand. Wish I had done that first. My Maroon Clown and totally rearranged the sand on the left side of my tank. I can see the bottom glass. As for the 6 line wrasse and the mandarins. That will be a tough decision. I have a 6-line and a Lime Green wrasse. No pods in my tank. Thank goodness I have a sump that allows them to grow. I didn't see how large you tank is. If it's 120 gal or more you might be able to house a 6-line and a Mandarin. Remember the mandarin is slow and can't compete for food. There are other wrasses you could chose from that won't compete with the mandarin. Try this web site...
http://themarinecenter.com/wrassereef.htm

 

[OrionGirl]

Anything that eats pods will be competition--wrasses, pygmy angels, hawks, etc. Most small mouthed fish will eat pods, given the chance. With a big enough tank, you might pull it off, but I would be really careful, and watch the mandarin for signs of starvation. You can supplement their diet with live brine, but it's not as good as keeping them supplied with copos. Setting up a sump for copos to grow in might help.

As for the convict blennies (or engineer gobies), they won't be happy in your setup, will likely annoy you. These guys like to dig, and will dig in the sand, making hills and valleys, and generally messing up your open area under the rock. If you start with eggcrate, then rock, then fill with sand, they will still dig, but it will be around the rock, to create tunnels. Much safer. If your rock work isn't stable,they can collapse it--a hazard to other's in the tank. We started with 2 of these, thinking they'd get to be about 6-7 inches. We have one left--the smaller was beaten from the tunnels--who is about 12 inches long at last measuring. They chased other gobies we've tried out of the tank--I wouln't risk mixing them. Not sure if one would go after the jawfish or not--ours ignores the scooter blenny completely.

 

[BiggerWurm]

Oriongirl and waterworld,

I know what you mean about the convicts i have one in my original tank about 10 inches. It has grown alot seen there pattern change no longer stripes but mine is a behind the scenes guy doesnt's mess up the front but i think i want a yellow watchman or two. I am trying to get a 5 foot long 2 1/2 feet wide and 20 to 24 inches deep. I am waiting on estimate from clarity plus. Tax return will be spent before i get it. Should be enough room for three diggers or at least two. It might be a fantasy but i would like to create a haven for different sands stirrers. i have live sand/gravel that is very cultured. When i put food in the tank tiny star fish wave arms like a hay field. Will use a refugium with macro algae and a tons of (bug kits) in both sump and tank.

WaterWorld i have also seen the work of the marron clown. i have aragonite but it constanly fans the gravel around the rock that my smaller anemone attached to . So maybe a husbandry kind of thing? Yours i assume sleeps there? I had a 6 line but he jumped out after my b@stard 3 stripe damsel kept messing with him and died during the night . Caught that little bugger with a hook threw the lip for killing him sent him to fish prison with buddies trigger now who chasing who. I know the dragonets are delicate and slow so i will be trying to cater to there lifestyle. Thanks for the website have you seen the GARF web site they run all Jaubert Plenum sytems but they have some amazing tanks and good info. the garf grungs looks like no other gravel i have seen really good stuff. Check it out made from the bottom of a bunch of live rock holding tanks an crushed sheels,live rock and lava rock. i bought a 150 reef janitors from them 25 pounds of grunge and got two free plugs.