Adding Co2 to tank with 6.6 pH & other planted help

[oo7genie]

I have a planted tank that has been keeping a stable 6.6 pH. I'd like to add my Co2 setup to the mix, but don't want to lower the pH of the tank. What is the best way to bring my pH back up to the 6.6 - 7.0 range once I add the Co2?

Specs:

Tank size: 60g
Lighting: 2 x 54W T5HO 6500k
Substrate: Tahitian Moon Black Sand (I had not originally planned on planted)
Co2: 5# Tank, Kegerator Regulator, Red Sea Needle Valve, Hagen Bubble Ladder (not hooked up to this tank yet)
Weekly 50% WC
Filtration: Rena Filstar XP3

Water Parameters:

pH 6.6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
KH: Very low
GH: Very low

Plants:

Ludwigia Repens
Red Melon Sword
Narrow Leaf Micro Sword
Rotala Magenta
Java Fern
Anubias Minima Petite

Fish:

2 Firemouth Cichlid
2 Jewel Cichlid
1 African Featherfin Catfish
4 Otos

So basically, I'd like to try and keep the pH right around where it is now, while injecting Co2, and bringing up the water hardness.

Ideally, I'd like to do something that will stay relatively stable, as opposed to taking days to properly buffer the water after each WC, if possible. I'm an expert at growing unwanted algae, so stability is an absolute must.

I also need some help with ferts. I currently dose Flourish twice a week, and Flourish Excel daily. I'm a novice when it comes to adding chemicals and ferts and the like, hence the Flourish as opposed to cheaper/better methods. However, my plants just aren't diggin' it as is, and I'm hoping that Co2 and possibly some better ferts/root tabs (not ready to change out substrate just yet) may help them turn the corner. I checked out MG's website, and the ferts FAQ and just got lost in all the information. I'm generally a trial and error sort of guy, but it gets rather expensive in this hobby, so I'm hoping to get some more focused help.

Any advice from more knowledgeable planted aquarists would be greatly appreciated!




*preparing to be told to swap substrate repeatedly...*

 

[rockhoe14er]

why do you want to lower your pH?

the lower pH caused by co2 won't have any affect on your animals.

But if you want to increase your pH you can always add some sodium bicarb to your water to increase the buffering capacity of you water. You need to do this slowly because this can affect your fish more than a pH drop caused by co2.

It's more important to worry about a shift in Total Disolved Solids in the water that affect pH than co2. For example, when you move a fish from soft water to hard water quickly this can cause osmotic shock to the fish and water will rush out of your fish and can kill it. This is true vice versa. If you move a fish from hard water to soft water and don't give him a time to acclimate water will rush into the fish and he'll die. Most fish can adapt to live in both types of environments if given enough time to acclimate.

In my planted tank my pH changes from 7.6 in the morning with no co2 to 6.4 when the co2 does turn on and i don't have any fish deaths and this is because the TDS of the water doesn't change but the pH does.

Hopefully this makes sense.

 

[DJDrZ]

I think if you go to dry fertz (or dry fertz premixed in a bottle for easier addition (my route)) will help you alot on a fronts. I think you GH should be higher, you have ALMOST no buffering capacity in your tank. As is, your CO2 levels are probably fine! This chart is a good rule of thumb. If you have like 2GH, you have 10-15 ppm of CO2 or so in your tank. You would expect some KH reading to show that, but whatevs. If you are happy with the fertz you are doing, then just buy some GH booster (essentially MGSO4 Epsom salts I believe). If you raise your GH, I think the tank will be much better. Once you do that, the water will be able to better accomodate your CO2 (although I would wait to add it until after you have achieved a stable GH). You may not actually need it with that pH. Whatever you do DO NOT add buffers to maintain pH. They are phosphate based and will really promote your algae! You can find carbonate based buffers, but I found that just fed the plants and the pH will be whatever it wants to be.

 

[rockhoe14er]

Whatever you do DO NOT add buffers to maintain pH. They are phosphate based and will really promote your algae!

I don't believe phosphate promotes algae. Phosphate is a macro nutrient that is needed by plants to grow. I know many people that have high levels of phosphate close to 10 ppm with no algae.

 

[Cerianthus]

How is pH/KH/GH of tap water compared to tank water? higher or similar?

Have you checked actual pH before light comes on (sunrise) and right before light goes off (sunset)? If have, what is the difference using your test kits, if any??

Overall shots/vid possible?

 

[prober]

Seachems alkaline and acid buffers do not contain phosphates and would be an excellent way to tailor KH,GH and PH that would stay exactly where you "set" it.

You should definately get your GH and KH above 3* before adding co2 or you could have a PH crash.

 

[oo7genie]

I don't want to lower the pH, I want to keep it where it is, but get more Co2 to the plants, while hardening the water. I was thinking perhaps using something in one of my available filter bays on the XP3.

I usually end up checking pH in the evening, an hour or so before lights out.

Tap was 7.2-7.4 pH, KH & GH both 1-2 (same as tank) on the API kit, last I checked. However, it's been a few months, so checking it again would make sense. My unplanted tanks are all still in the 7.2-7.4 range, so I hadn't thought to retest the tap. I'll grab a sample today, and test it in a couple days.

As for ferts,

I've considered dry ferts, but have no clue what mixture I need. That's where I got lost in information overload. What do I actually need, and how much of each ingredient. I'd rather get away from the Flourish if possible, it's nice and simple to use, but it's expensive, and my plants don't seem to do any better with it than without it, though it has helped with algae a bit.

Unfortunately, the photo shoot will have to wait. I'm busy the next couple of days, then I'm adding my new XP3 to the setup this weekend (right now it's running with 2 Penguin 350's) which will require me to do a little rearranging in the tank. Once it's all settled out, I'll get some pics posted. I'm not in any serious rush to start messing with my Co2 & GH/KH, my plants are all surviving just fine (with the exception of the rotala, it's not doing so good), they just aren't doing much more than that.

 

[247Plants]

I think if you go to dry fertz (or dry fertz premixed in a bottle for easier addition (my route)) will help you alot on a fronts. I think you GH should be higher, you have ALMOST no buffering capacity in your tank. As is, your CO2 levels are probably fine! This chart is a good rule of thumb. If you have like 2GH, you have 10-15 ppm of CO2 or so in your tank. You would expect some KH reading to show that, but whatevs. If you are happy with the fertz you are doing, then just buy some GH booster (essentially MGSO4 Epsom salts I believe). If you raise your GH, I think the tank will be much better. Once you do that, the water will be able to better accomodate your CO2 (although I would wait to add it until after you have achieved a stable GH). You may not actually need it with that pH. Whatever you do DO NOT add buffers to maintain pH. They are phosphate based and will really promote your algae! You can find carbonate based buffers, but I found that just fed the plants and the pH will be whatever it wants to be.

The info I bolded is simply not true. It will not hold more than equilibrium with the atmosphere without co2 injection. Soft water doesnt automatically mean high co2. One more reason for ph testing of co2 parameters to be tossed out the window.

 

[Cerianthus]

"I'm not in any serious rush to start messing with my Co2 & GH/KH, my plants are all surviving just fine"

My point exactly!
Should evaluate/analyze present condition as well as tap, mostly pH/KH/CO2 for their interdepencies to begin with, before deciding vol/duration/frequency of CO2 injection as there are no 2 tanks that are alike.

Try utilizing the equiibrium reaction of CO2 in water, Carbonic acid, Bicarbonate, and carbonate.. And NO3/PO4, etc, etc as well. So many variable to take into consideration to find the right balance in order to yield optimum results for each individual tank.

Dont know what your desired [CO2] is but If you want to make it simple, try obtaining CO2 test kit and test in the morning and late afternoon.

Once readings are obtained, should be able to figure out (trials & errors) when appropriate CO2 injections are needed in order to maintain your desired & stable [CO2] for this specific tank thus you may be able to maintain stable pH/KH as well..

Good Luck!

 

[coach_z]

phosphate above 5ppm is great for your tank!!!!!!! it actually prevents algae!!!!! Cutting ferts out of the planted tank is te best way to promote algae folks. dont believe me, want scientific proof? give it a try then have fun removing your algae.

the co2 'swing' that you get when you inject co2 is 'artificial' having a 6.6 ph with a co2 induced swing of 1 to get 5.5 is not the same as having 5.6 ph. use google.com to find information from scientific research to tell you why that is.

inject co2.
use a drop checker with 4dkh solution in it.
dont mess with your ph.