Advice on Mandarin Dragonets, and corals? please read first before flaming :)

[Ashers]

Hey there
So I've had a lot of fun with freshwater tanks (from 37 gallon to 135 gallon). Sadly I had to shut them down for a move. I really miss my fishy hobby and I'm considering having a go at salt water this time. I'm thinking along the lines of a 30-40 gallon (50 gallon tops, I have limited space). And what really got me interested is the mandarin dragonet. I've read everywhere that they are not beginner fish. I have bought nothing, I'm still in the idea phase. My plan is to do as much research as I can possibly do (while saving up $$ I have a feeling this is going to be costly). I do not plan on rushing out and buying a dragonet right away, please no one flame me.
What I want is a reef tank, and I want to figure out what I'm stocking it with and when I should add them before I buy the tank to make sure it will all work. I want a dragonet, so I want fish and corals etc. that will work well with them. I'll spend the the time establishing the tank and learning about these for awhile first before I even think about getting my dragonet, it will be the last addition, possibly years after starting up the tank.
My questions are:
a) How big a tank does a mandarin dragonet actually need? I've tried researching this and got anywhere between 20-100 gallons as result 30 gallon being the most popular. And how much live rock per fish? this answer varies a lot as well.
b) What kinds of fish can I keep with a dragonet that won't compete with it for food and will over all be compatible with it (also preferably smaller,good beginner fish)? (I really like the idea of clown fish...)
c)What are some good beginner corals? I've read that soft corals are easier, but I've no idea where to start researching, so some names would be awesome
d) the main problem I've been reading on the dragonets is feeding them, is it possible to culture your own food for them at home to replenish the tank?
e) an tips in general for a beginner starting up a salt water tank? personal experiences, ideas? things not to do? good brands? (remember I haven't bought anything yet)

Thanks for reading and giving info

 

[Fishfriend1]

I would start by saying Welcome to the Hobby!

I then they continue to say get the largest tank you can afford and have space for, bigger is better in Saltwater. The amount of live rock should be 1.5 lbs per gallon, but at least 1lb per gallon of water. 50 gallon tank - 50lbs min, 75 lbs preferred. Dragonets prefer at least 30 gallon tanks, and would appreciate a 50 gallon more then a 30. They also need a well established tank, so I would start with a 50gal, let it cycle, add a few fish (maybe a clown pair and a few gobys?) and then add a few corals, and then after about 6 months of running with fish add the mandarin dragonet. You will want plenty of hiding places and an exceptionally stable tank, as they are already hard enough to care for.

In a mature tank, they can be somewhat hardy, but the trick is getting them to eat. I'm not an expert on that, as my clownfish tries to eat anything that hits the water (including my fingers) but I do hear that garlic works. I would keep the mandarin in a smaller, temporary QT tank for a few months and teach it to eat in there where you can easily remove it and return it if it doesn't make it. IME, fish will eat if they get hungry enough and have food available. If I were you, I'd try a Green Mandarin, as they appear to be the hardiest of the lot, though Spotted Mandarins are also pretty hardy. In the end it's your choice.

Tips for a beginner... research, research, research, google, google, google, more research, and patience to the point of being a rock. Check out this site for ideas on fish/corals you may want, then do your research on them: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/aquarium-fish-supplies.cfm?c=15

Also, when you do set up the tank, try to get a sump system set up early on, such a system will definitely help the tank and it's inhabitants survive. Remember, take your time. Let the tank cycle over the course of about a month, get T5 lighting, gets powerheads and pumps and a skimmer. You don't need a filter, that's what the Live Rock does, though some people have them to increase the amount of water in the tank (that's my plan) and to take out solids. Don't add fish until the tank is fully cycled (ammonia = 0, nitrate = 0, nitrite = 20ppm) and DO NOT add more then 2 fish at a time, and even then, only with a pair of clownfish. Always quarantine fish for at least a month to make sure they are safe, so basically, have a smaller tank running where you can monitor fish behavior and health. Don't be afraid of hitchhikers (critters that come with the LR) but make sure none of them are dangerous to the fish (some types of mantis shrimp can be, as well as other pests like serpent and brittle stars). Finally, patience, patience, and more patience. If you want it to work don't be stupid like me and try to rush things.

Good luck!

 

[greech]

Kudos to you for taking time to think things through (especially for a difficult fish like a mandarin)!

a) Size wise a mandy will do well in 30 gallon but as with just about any fish they will be happier in a larger tank. The problem (as I am sure you've read) is that mandys pretty much hunt and eat (pods) all day long so a single mandy will wipe out a small tank in no time and without a stead replenishment of pods, the mandy will starve. It's very obvious when this starts to happen as their bodies really thin out.

b) Clowns are fine but stick with ocellaris and perculas and avoid large clowns like tomatoes and clarkiis. Gobies and small blennies (like the tailspot) are better candidates. Most fish leave mandy's alone you just need to avoid other fish that prey on pods or, in the case of a manadarin that will eat prepared foods, fish that are overly aggressive eaters (which sometimes clowns can be).

There is no lb per fish rule. There is a rule of thumb of 1 lb of rock per gallon but honestly that doesn't seem to hold much water (no pun intended). I have about 35 to 40 lbs of rock in my 60 gallon system and have no issues. The amount of rock is going to depnd on how heaviliy you stock the system with fish particularly and how much/often you feed the tank. A 100 gallon tank with one small fish and 15-20 lbs of rock will do just as well as the same size tank with 10 fish and 100 lbs of rock. keep in mind that rock in your sump counts (it doesn't all have to be in your display (although the mandy will apprecaite more rock to hunt through).

c) Typically softies are the easiest followed by Large Polyp Stoney corals and then Small Polpy Stoney corals (of course there are exceptions). The problem with softies is that most either get very large, very quick or they spread quickly (mushrooms, etc) so they can take over a tank fairly quick. Xenia for example is a coral you should not add to your tank unless yo can isoloate it to it's own island or really want a tank full of it . Many people that start out with softies end up swapping them out for LPS and SPS down the road. LPS and many SPS for that matter, really aren't that difficult. Research and dedication to water quality is really all that is required in addition to sufficient lighting. Easy LPS are acans, favia, euphyllia (torch, frogspawn, hammers) and duncans just to name a few. Zoanthids (zoas) and ricordeas are nice soft corals with a large variety of color morphs.

d) Yes! Infact you can connect that food source to your tank. Google "refugium". The trick is to have a large enough refugium that will supply enough pods. In a 50 gallon system, you would probably want a 40+ gallon sump with live rock and macro alage (cheato, etc) that will provide a safe place for pods to breed. You can also buy pods but that gets expensive.

e) Don't skimp on the quality of rock (good porous rock), quality of lighting (T5s, halides or LEDs) or flow (powerheads, closed loops, etc).

Rock - Bulk reef supply and marco rocks sell very nice dry rock, Premium Aquatics, Foster & Smith and Tampa Bay Saltwater all sell very good live rock (if you don't like what your LFS sells).

Lighting - ATI and Tek and excellent T5 fixtures, Ecotech Radion and Aqua Illimunation are some of the best LED fixtures out there currently (but there are MANY others and other ways to incorporate LEDs into your lighting). Ecoxotic is another very good LED company. There are just too many LED options to list. Can't help much with halide fixtures as I have little experience with them.

Flow - Ecotech's Vortech pumps are very nice as are Tunze powerheads. Tunze makes both controllable and standard (single speed) powerheads. Good economical powerheads include Koralia Evolution made by Hydor (can be used with their new Smartwave wave controller) and Maxijet Pros.

Lastly, google "ORA Mandarins" or Oceans Reefs & Aquariums. The have successfully tank bred mandys that reportedly eat prepared foods. I have read mixed reviews of other's success but its worth a look. ORA is a very reputible company within the hobby. It is possible to train your mandy to eat prepared foods as well but as fishfreind mentioned you will want to do that in a tank where the mandy will be focused on the tank (display tanks don't work very well for this). Also, scotter blennies are dragonettes and have the same habits as mandys.

Good luck with the build. Keep researching and asking questions and I'm sure you will have a lot of success.

 

[audifeesh]

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