Ammonia in tap water. Lost Angel tonight.

[Bigebee]

Here's a quick backstory. Had fish-less cycled our 55 gallon tank for almost 4 weeks. Finally showed 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10-20 nitrates. Dosed with pure ammonia again and consumed 5ppm within a day and converted fine. Ordered 4 discus and 2 angels last Friday. From day one our discus have been having issues (almost black and hiding) but our 2 angels have been pretty active and eating. Our water reading have been good and then we started showing signs of ammonia creeping to .25 and nitrites .25. Have been doing several 50% + water changes at least twice a day trying to do what we can to get things under control. Testing using the API Master kit and thought it was odd that after I did a change, the water didn't seem to get better on ammonia (although nitrites and nitrates were almost 0). Did a test on ammonia straight from the tap and the readings were 1.0. I went out and purchased another testing kit...same results.

So then I was wondering by me doing all these water changes, am I making the water worse? The tank seems to be breaking down the tap water ammonia from 1.0 to .25. I am using 2 kinds of water conditioners (one with and one without aloe). I'm also using a python tube. Dosing the conditioner for the whole tank. Wife and I were freaking out that our tap has that much ammonia which may be stressing our discus.

Lo and behold, our black discus brightened up and displayed their beautiful blue and red colors tonight. It was wonderful seeing them swimming around (but still not eating). Tank readings still around .25, 0, 5-10. We were so happy and then we starting looking for our 2 angels - who had been doing awesome (super active and eating). One was in the "plants" dead. I'm attaching pic to see if anyone can tell anything.

Tank temp was around 86 - from advice from a few discus people I'm lowering to 84. So any ideas on the angel? Any ideas on how to cope with ammonia from tap even using conditioners to take out chlorine and chloramine?

 

[Star_Rider]

is the source water well or municipal?
tank temp at 86 is fine for young discus and usually ok for young angels.
any NH3 in the water is a concern with both species.. as in general, that are both intolerant of NH3..NO2 can have the same end result and they can get damage in their gills that may never get better.

what is pH..? I ask as low pH NH3 and NO2 have less of an impact..high pH and you can get very damaging impact.

the Angels appear stunted..or of poor stock...Particularly the one in the lower picture..
consider a local breeder to improve your chances..
did you get a chance to look at the gills of the Angels?
If the conditioner you are using is Prime.. it will turn NH3 into NH4 which is less harmful ..and still leave it in a state where it can be consumed by bacteria.

NO2 will still be a concern...but believe it or not adding salt to the tank and lessen the impact of NO2 as it changes the chemistry of the water enought o inhibit the absorption of NO2..but you still need to deal with the NO2.
I am guessing the addition of the fish caused the spike in the cycle..but the bacteria population should have been enough to compensate for this with in 12-24 hrs.

in general it is usually best to add Discus and Angels to well established tanks...
do you have anyone you know and trust with aquariums? you can seed your tank with media from a friend. and this should result in an instant cycle.. other thank that..lots of water changes.

btw if the discus are coloring up this is generally a good sign.

 

[authmal]

other thank that..lots of water changes.

Wouldn't that be potentially dangerous with the ammonia coming out of the tap?

Sorry about your luck, Brian.

 

[Star_Rider]

which is why I asked about source water.. generally when the NH3/NH4 readings are that high the source points to a well.
in which case best to find another source..
but in a well established cycled tank it generally isn't much of an issue as the bacteria will usually catch up to the levels within hours of it's introduction.
if the source is high..the option is to find a different source such as bottled water.
but in any case.. any NH3 in the water does not bode well for any inhabitants and the best chance for the fish is still water changes.. with clean water.

by the way Prime locks up NH3 turning it into NH4..making the ammonia less harmful...but not sure it does much for NO2

also most of our reagent testers test for total ammonia which is NH3+NH4

 

[MoonstruckMuse]

I agree that the angelfish does look really stunted. Weird...

My house's water is sometimes has some ammonia in it too, and so I actually avoid water changes, haha. That's not necessarily the best option, but perhaps what you could do is to treat the water before you put it in the tank, test it, and make sure it's safe... and then add it for water changes. It might also be worth holding off on a water change and seeing if the water quality is actually fine before you go and do such a large water change. With more sensitive species, frequent small water changes have worked for me far better for me. Even changing from relatively high levels of ammonia to low ones can be stressful, since it's a change, regardless.

 

[Bigebee]

Hi all and thanks for the input.

The water is from the city. Consistently coming in now at 1 for ammonia after several tests and several API master kits.

Testing the water several hours after doing 50% water changes using conditioners poured into tank as I use my python hose, my results are now coming in between 0-.25 for ammonia, 0 for nitrites, 5.0 for nitrates. Temp was taken down from 86 to 84.

The (4) discus (having a great night last night and first time we've seen color since I first got them last Friday), they were mostly black today. 2 have some color tonight with fins up, 2 still dark fins sometimes up, sometimes down. But all 4 are now swimming and not hiding from us. Even saw all 4 eat some beef heart flakes. Not much, but picking at it.

My lone angel seems to be doing fine. Acting like he has (and his dead companion) since we've gotten them last week. You all mention stunted. How can one tell if they are considered babies/juveniles?

So tank is breaking down my ammonia from the tap down to .25. Obviously would like to see that 0. Nitrites 0. Nitrates 5 - continue with 50% water changes to get nitrates even lower? From reading on the boards late last night, I ordered some of the powdered version of the Prime. Hopefully gets here soon. Meantime, will continue using existing water conditioners and dosing for entire 55 gallon tank. Was doing one big 75% change daily (with an additional 50%) but will just do (2) 50% changes here on out to not over stress the fish.