ammonia problems

C

confusion

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Jun 3, 2006
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I have a 10G tank that I'm using as a quarentine. It's not cycled (not is my 55G). I have had a few swordtail die in the 10G - one from a big lesion I can only assume the other was from ammonia poisoning.

Anyhow, the male swordtail has ich and is not eating and just slowly moves about the tank. My ammonia level has been between .5ppm and 1ppm in that tank. For the past 4 days, I have been doing a 50% PWC in the morning and another 50% in the evening.

Up till yesterday, I had a brood of 19 baby swordtails (about 3/16" to 1/4" long) in the 10G tank with an adult male swordtail and a pleco. I moved the babies to my 55G tank, hoping that the additional water volume will help them out, and the reduced bio load would help the 10G tank.

I tested the ammonia yesterday morning and found it at about 1ppm. After yesterday morning's 50% PWC and removing the babies, I tested the tank after about 15 minutes. The reading was about .5ppm. I tested again after about 2 hours and the ammonia was back up to near 1 ppm. I was quite concerned that my swordtail is having trouble breathing still, so I did roughly an 80% PWC. I tested after about 15 minues and ammonia was at near 0ppm. I was happy. I waited about another hour and retested, and ammonia was back between .5ppm and 1ppm.

I'm somewhat at a loss as to why I can't keep the ammonia down for more than an hour or so. The only thing I can think that might be causing a problem is that I'm treating the water with copper safe and maracyn 2 to try to heal my remaining swordtail.

Any advice? I dumped in some bio-spira over the weekend, but I've done so many PWC's that I can't imagine that much is left (that's expensive waste water, I must say) I'm going to stop on my way home and pick up some more bio spira for both tanks tonight, and put it in after I do some PWC's.

Thanks,

Jerry
 
Hello Jerry,

Do you know what your water is treated with...chlorine or chloramine? Chloramine is a chlorine-ammonia product and many de-chlorinators will break the bond but not deal with the ammonia. Doesn't seem plausible since you had 0ppm ammonia after an 80% pwc but thought I'd throw it out there.

How many fish do you have in the 10g and how big are they? How long has it been set up?

Bio-spira is worthless if not handled correctly...is it possible you bought some bad stuff? It needs to be refrigerated at all times.

I'm not aware of any problems from using coppersafe and maracyn2 with ammonia test kits but I don't know all the interactions of chemical treatments and test kits either.

Do you know your pH of tap water and tank water? They could be the same but if there is carbon dioxide in the tap and it off-gases (dissipates into the air) after you put it in your tank, your pH may be rising as the water sits. There is a relationship between un-ionized ammonia(NH3) and pH/temperature. At higher pH and temp, ammonia is more toxic, that is there are more NH3 ions present due to the reaction in water. If your pH is lower when added, then rises, it may be the reason you're getting higher readings.

Hopefully we can figure this out!

-Bill
 
Thanks for the response.

The tank is about 2 weeks old now. I have 1 male swordtail, about 2" long, and one pleco, about 3 inches long.

I think my water company uses chlorine. It's Cobb County, GA, so that's a pretty major provider.

My ph out of the tap is about 6.4. I've tested in the tank, and it's about the same. I've been maintaining the temp at around 80F - I can't get it much cooler because the room it's in is just warm.

The bio-spira was refrigerated when I bought it, though I didn't keep it on ice for the drive home - about 25 minutes or so. It was still pretty cool to the touch when I dumped it in the tank. I'm going to take some ice with me when I go back this afternoon for more.

Thanks again for the help!
 
you could try more bio spira..but it could be that the tank just hasn't had time to catch up yet.

you have a 10 and a 55? are they both not cycled?
 
I’m assuming you are new to the hobby because you are posting in the newbie forum, correct? Have you ever had a tank before? It seems to me you have a couple issues going on,

One, your current ammonia issues are due to the fact that you have not cycled your tanks yet and it is currently in the middle of the first part of the cycle. (If you aren’t familiar with how to cycle a tank, please read
this) The next to spike will be your nitrite, which will also cause your fish problems. Only way to keep your sword tail alive is to continue daily water changes till the cycle is complete. Are you cycling your 55g now as well? If not, you will have the same problems in your 55 that you are experiencing in your 10 when you add fish.

Two, you are also dealing with ich at the same time you are trying to cycling your tanks. What have you done to treat the ich so far? Even under the best circumstances ich ALONE can cause death due to stress. The odds of survive both a cycle and ich at the same time…well I’d say it would be luck at best. Ich requires salt treatment and higher temps to help speed up the ich cycle. IMO this is best done in an established tank.

There is not much you can do now but keep doing water changes until your tank has cycled and try to treat the ich as best you can. What are you doing with your 55g? Any fish in it? I would consider doing a fishless-cycle on your 55g if possible. Also, you will have to treat your 55g for ich as well. You most likely added ich into the environment when you put the babies from you 10g into it.
 
Yup, according to this site...
http://water.cobbcountyga.gov/wqpg1.htm they do use chlorine.

Throw those ideas out.

O.k., on to feeding. How much and how often? Is there algae for the pleco to feed on. They are notorious eating (which = waste producing) machines. If you cut back on feeding, you'll cut back on the amount of waste produced.

You might inquire at the store if the biospira is shipped to the store refrigerated. I doubt it would go bad on your trip home. Another option is ammonia locking products like Ammo-lock or Amquel which binds the ammonia so it is harmless to fish, but leave it available to the bacteria so your tank can cycle.
 
rowangel:
I have 7 zebra danios and 19 baby swordtails in the 55G tank. It's been treated with bio-spira, and I think it's cycling ok - I'll check it when I get home this evening. I've been adding 2tbsp of aquarium salt per 5G, as has been recommended to me and listed on the package of the salt.

I had the temp up at about 88F, but the swordtail was looking very distressed, and backed off the temp.

beviking:
I'm feeding him a pinch of flake once per day, just to see if he's interested. It's been sinking to the bottom and getting picked up by the filter or by my gravel vac during a water change.
 
Cool, looks like you’re taking care of the ich. I'd watch your 55g for signs of it too since you moved those babies and I'd be concerned about the possible transfer of it.

Have you been testing your 55g daily to see where it is in the cycle? If you haven’t you should, especially since you are using fish to cycle, you need to monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels to see if you need to make adjustments or do water changes. As beviking pointed out, Amquel or Prime are good to add to the water to help with the Ammonia spikes you are experiencing. Water change are still necessary to remove the Ammonia though, Prime only locks it so the fish aren't affected by it as much.

Once your cycles are complete, make sure to add any new fish slowly so the bacteria can catch-up to the bio-mass.
 
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