Bio Spira Efffectiveness

[Roan Art]

I think we all pretty much agree on the following:

1. We know Bio Spira works if the product is good and the directions are followed exactly. That means adding the Bio Spira to a new tank and then adding the fish immediately.

2. We've learned that a fishless cycle will not work with Bio Spira and ammonia or Bio Spira and whatever-is-decaying-and-producing-ammonia.

3. We've learned that although Bio Spira will help if added in the middle of a fishy cycle, but it's not "instantaneous" like it is at the start of the cycle, and can take a few days.

Okay, WHY does Bio Spira only work if it's done as per the package directions? I think someone tried to explain it once, but I can't find the thread and, at the time, didn't understand. It was all goobley gook

When I bought my first package of Bio Spira from my LFS they told me that fish introduced to a new tank will automatically urinate and thus start the cycle immediately. If that were wholly true, then adding Bio Spira mid-cycle should work instantaneously, the same as if they were added at the start of the cycle. That's not true, as we've found, and it takes a few days for the new bacteria to end the cycle.

So it all comes back to it only working "instantaneously" when added at the start of the cycle along with the fish. Why?

I think it highly probable that when new fish are added to a tank, they give off *something* -- urine, adrenaline, some sort of stress or fear pheremone, whatever. After all, it is very stressful to the fish and I'm sure they are scared to noogies.

Could that unknown be what activates the bacteria in Bio Spira and causes them to grow at an extraordinary rate, thus speeding up the cycle process? Or another bacteria in the package that feeds off the unknown that speeds up the process?

Thoughts?

 

[liv2padl]

1. We know Bio Spira works if the product is good and the directions are followed exactly. That means adding the Bio Spira to a new tank and then adding the fish immediately.

2. We've learned that a fishless cycle will not work with Bio Spira and ammonia or Bio Spira and whatever-is-decaying-and-producing-ammonia.

3. We've learned that although Bio Spira will help if added in the middle of a fishy cycle, but it's not "instantaneous" like it is at the start of the cycle, and can take a few days.

and just where/how have the collective "WE" learned and come to know all this? on another forum which i moderate, the collective WE seem to have different types of success with the product. in other words, it seems to work for some and not for others. it seems to work fish or fishless for some but not for others. it seems to work at the beginning or middle of a cycle for some but not for others.

i think that what can be said is that Biospira is a 'live' biological product and as such it's affected by the biology of each different tank in a different way. in sum, like any biological thing, there's little that can be said to be a 'rule'.

 

[Roan Art]

and just where/how have the collective "WE" learned and come to know all this? on another forum which i moderate, the collective WE seem to have different types of success with the product.

The collective "we" obviously refers to here, wouldn't you think? Why would I indicate information from another board unless I stated so?

in other words, it seems to work for some and not for others. it seems to work fish or fishless for some but not for others. it seems to work at the beginning or middle of a cycle for some but not for others.

If you have other information from another board, please share. As I stated, i'm going on the conversations we've had here.

There have been no accounts that I've read on here where it has worked in a fishless cycle. In fact, there have been threads from people trying to get it to work that way and many posts from experienced members telling us not to bother because it does not work.

Here are the last few threads on fishless and Bio Spira. You even posted in them:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60948&highlight=bio+spira+fishless
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60795&highlight=bio+spira+fishless

Where you say it has worked fishless, how? I've not seen a post here where you indicated how it did work fishless. At what stage were the fish introduced? Please give some details.

i think that what can be said is that Biospira is a 'live' biological product and as such it's affected by the biology of each different tank in a different way. in sum, like any biological thing, there's little that can be said to be a 'rule'.

Unless you sum up all the instances and analyse them, no one knows whether there is a "rule" or not. There *may* be some common denominator, which is what I want to find out.

Roan

 

[liv2padl]

collective "we" obviously refers to here

i know that of course, i was simply intending to infer that very often, the collective 'we' just doesn't have sufficient information to form the basis of what is "known". in my opinion, 18 conversations just doesn't make something a fact yet. enecdotal at best.

Unless you sum up all the instances and analyse them, no one knows whether there is a "rule" or not. There *may* be some common denominator, which is what I want to find out.

not sure why you've taken umbrage to my post .. it wasn't intended to push your button, but simply as an expression of my feeling that there just isn't enough body of evidence to form any conclusive doctrine regarding the functionality of BioSpira. i've never used it myself and have no personal experience to offer here ... simply my impressions from the other forums that serve to confirm my feelings. which feelings are again, Biospira is a biological product and almost every tank is different with regard to it's 'biology' (water chemistry, fishload, tank size, water temperature, gravel and/or rock type, plants or not, type of plants, type of filter .. and on and on. put these variables together and you've got a system for which little can be said to be definitive.

if i posted to any thread here regarding biospira i may have said nothing more than that "it seems to work for some folks" ... in response to a question of 'bacteria in a bottle'. certainly not a very scientific input.

 

[Xielos]

2. We've learned that a fishless cycle will not work with Bio Spira and ammonia or Bio Spira and whatever-is-decaying-and-producing-ammonia.

So I'm just imagining my 72 gallon cycled tank?

I started my tank off with 5ppm ammonia. After adding BIOSpira to my filter , I was down to 2ppm ammonia in 2 days. After 3 weeks my tank is now fully cycled and I already have fish. I have not seen a hint of ammonia since then, and I'm even missing a fish that I presume dead and rotting somewhere.

 

[Roan Art]

So I'm just imagining my 72 gallon cycled tank?

Course not

I started my tank off with 5ppm ammonia. After adding BIOSpira to my filter , I was down to 2ppm ammonia in 2 days. After 3 weeks my tank is now fully cycled and I already have fish. I have not seen a hint of ammonia since then, and I'm even missing a fish that I presume dead and rotting somewhere.

I read some of the thread, but I guess I didn't follow it right through. I had no idea you used Bio Spira during the cycle.

I stand corrected

How far into the cycle did you add the Bio Spira? Did you add the fish first, or fully cycle fishless and then add the fish?

Roan

 

[Xielos]

I added the BIOSpira as soon as I had ammonia in the tank, at 5ppm. In 2 days I had nitrites (probably the first day, but I didn't check then). I just kept topping the tank off with ammonia whenever it got low, and did a 90% water chage the night before I brought my fish home from the LFS.

The only thing I would have done differently was not using so much ammonia, it crashed my ph right near the end of the cycle and I had to do 2 50% water chages in 2 days to bring it back up, followed by the 90% water chage the next day to get rid of the nitrates.

All levels since then have been perfect, and my fish are adjusting well.

 

[mishi8]

I think we all pretty much agree on the following:

1. We know Bio Spira works if the product is good and the directions are followed exactly. That means adding the Bio Spira to a new tank and then adding the fish immediately.

2. We've learned that a fishless cycle will not work with Bio Spira and ammonia or Bio Spira and whatever-is-decaying-and-producing-ammonia.

3. We've learned that although Bio Spira will help if added in the middle of a fishy cycle, but it's not "instantaneous" like it is at the start of the cycle, and can take a few days.

I don't think we pretty much all agree. And you cannot determine these points to be fact based on a handful of anecdotes. I, for one, had success using BioSpira during my fishless cycle. And I would expect that there is benefit to adding BioSpira at any point during any type of cycling. Heck, even Marineland Labs suggests using during water changes, and when adding new fish.

 

[mishi8]

There have been no accounts that I've read on here where it has worked in a fishless cycle. In fact, there have been threads from people trying to get it to work that way and many posts from experienced members telling us not to bother because it does not work.

Here are the last few threads on fishless and Bio Spira. You even posted in them:
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60948&highlight=bio+spira+fishless
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60795&highlight=bio+spira+fishless

So you're picking an choosing which members input is valuable? I have posted that it works during fishless cycling. In fact, I was one of three people who posted in the second thread you linked to....guess my input isn't worth counting towards the collective "we?"

 

[mishi8]

I added the BIOSpira as soon as I had ammonia in the tank, at 5ppm. In 2 days I had nitrites (probably the first day, but I didn't check then). I just kept topping the tank off with ammonia whenever it got low, and did a 90% water chage the night before I brought my fish home from the LFS.

I was curious to hear whether you had success with the BioSpira, Xielos. Glad to hear it worked well for you!

Mishi8