Bio Spira Efffectiveness

Oh for crying out loud. Get off the "we" crap, people.

All I wanted to do was start a discussion on Bio Spira and if it might be possible to pinpoint some sort of common denominator on making it work in certain situations.

All you people can do is pick on my wording.

Fine. I apologize for not memorizing every thing in every thread. I apologize for not reading a thread that I didn't realize even included Bio Spira. I apologize for saying the freaking royal "we" **** that seems to offend so many of you.

Just forget it, okay? Get off my back and forget I ever posted this crap.

Roan
 
You asked for thoughts. That's what you got.

I'm not picking on your wording. I'm pointing out that you used a thread example that had two different opinions, but only recognized the negative one. There were only three posts in that thread, if you hadn't read through it all, then why use it as an example?
 
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The only thing I can think of that would cause the variation in success with BioSpira, aside from a bad batch, is the ammonia level. High ammonia level is known to inhibit the growth of the bacterias, and the recommended 5ppm to start the fishless cycle is on the high end. I would imagine putting BioSpira into an already stocked tank with a high ammonia level can lead to the same result. It would be interesting to see the success rate of BioSpira if people dropped to 2-3ppm instead of 5.
 
Sicne bacteria reporduce very quickly, couldn't one add only 1ppm of ammonia + Biospira, then slowly increase the ammonia concentration to have a bigger colony quicker?
 
pbrack said:
Sicne bacteria reporduce very quickly, couldn't one add only 1ppm of ammonia + Biospira, then slowly increase the ammonia concentration to have a bigger colony quicker?
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That actualy sounds like a better idea, makes sense. Like I said before, I think 5ppm is a bit on the high side, if I was cycling another tank, I'd start with 3ppm.
 
phanmc said:
The only thing I can think of that would cause the variation in success with BioSpira, aside from a bad batch, is the ammonia level. High ammonia level is known to inhibit the growth of the bacterias, and the recommended 5ppm to start the fishless cycle is on the high end. I would imagine putting BioSpira into an already stocked tank with a high ammonia level can lead to the same result. It would be interesting to see the success rate of BioSpira if people dropped to 2-3ppm instead of 5.
Click to expand...


Except, that adding 5ppm to a tank for fishless cycling encourages the growth of bacteria, regardless of the addition of BioSpira. Now 5ppm is the highest amount I've seen recommended for fishless cycling...higher than that will likely cause problems with a stalled cycle early on.

Of course, one can definitely fishless cycle with much lower concentrations of ammonia. The cycle would likely take less time to complete, and will support a smaller number of fish than a full biofilter would. My second tank I seeded and fishless cycled with about 2ppm, since I was simply transferring a small number of fish from a smaller tank, and didn't need to wait out a cycle for a full bioload.
 
But once you have that small colony, if you increase your concentration from 1 to 2 ppm on the next day, wouldn't it take a day or two to increase the colony due to exponential growth?

So if it takes a short time to cycle with 2 ppm, you could gradually increase to 5 ppm to have a full cycle in a lot less time...right?
 
pbrack said:
But once you have that small colony, if you increase your concentration from 1 to 2 ppm on the next day, wouldn't it take a day or two to increase the colony due to exponential growth?

So if it takes a short time to cycle with 2 ppm, you could gradually increase to 5 ppm to have a full cycle in a lot less time...right?
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Sure, I'd expect you could gradually increase the ammonia level to grow more bacteria, but I don't know that it would take a lot less time. Consider a fishy cycle: you start with a couple of fish, and then add a couple, and a couple more until cycling is complete. The length of time it takes depends on many variables...and that length of time varies from tank to tank. That's no different with fishless cycling, and both types of cycling take about the same time to complete.

I think it makes more sense, if you're going to for the largest possible biofilter, to start with a higher dose of ammonia (max 4-5ppm) right off the bat, and wait for the bacterial colony to grow to it's complete size. There is room for error in that there are no fish to harm. If ammonia levels and resulting nitrite and nitrate levels become too high, a water change can correct that.

If we're talking about the best way to add BioSpira to a fishless cycle, I think it would also depend on the size of the tank and the amount of BioSpira. And if BioSpira is supposed to almost instantly cycle for a complete bioload of fish, then wouldn't it make more sense to add a higher amount of ammonia (4-5ppm as opposed to less) right off the bat so as not to lose bacteria (and $) due to lack of food?
 
mishi8 said:
Except, that adding 5ppm to a tank for fishless cycling encourages the growth of bacteria, regardless of the addition of BioSpira. Now 5ppm is the highest amount I've seen recommended for fishless cycling...higher than that will likely cause problems with a stalled cycle early on.
Click to expand...

Agreed, 5ppm shouldn't be causing the BioSpira to fail but perhaps people are going over the 5ppm mark without realizing it. Like Roan, I've read plenty of failed attempts with BioSpira and I don't think most of them are due to a bad batch.
 
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