Cichlid water question

[Glasslaer]

Hello, just found this site while searching the Internet for an answer to my question. Very nice site.

I have a 46 gallon tank with 10 African cichlids (2 red zebras, 2 jewels, 2 sunshine cichlids, 2- red cichlids and two auloncara specis -blue - not sure of species) and some Austrailian rainbowfish that were used to cycle the tank and one catfish. The cichlids were added about two weeks ago and are doing well. Ammonia and nitrites are negative; Nitrates at 10ppm. pH is 8.0.

I was visiting a LFS today and in talking to them, they said they would use the Kent Cichlid Chemistry and Cichlid Buffer since my water is too soft. My outside water has a pH of 7.6 and Hardenss of about 250ppm (strip test, so might not be very accurate). The tank water, from the inside tap which went through the water softener, has a pH of 8.0 and a Hardness of 50ppm (strip test again). The total alkalinity is about the same for the tank and the outside tap - approx 200-240 ppm (strip test).

Should I attempt to raise the hardness? I am concerned that it will raise the pH, which seems to be fine. Also, won't that make the TDS mineral content really high, since the sodium minerals have to be considered too? What harm is there to the fish?

Any help is much appreciated!

 

[bt300z32]

Sorry I can't help you out, but I wanted to 2nd this question as I have always wondered about this too. I have been keeping, or at least attemping to keep African's for about 8mths now (read my post about Problems with changing water). Here are my numbers from the tap: ph: 7.8 KH: 120 GH: 300
Mine are also test strips, but I was told they were pretty accurate (truth or sales pitch??). Wondering if I should change my substate as well? Right now I use just black gravel. What is reccommended as far as color and Ph buffers for African Peacocks?

 

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Honestly i wouldnt bother with any of those products. They are expensive and a hassel to always be adding them. Its far better for the fish's water to be stable as opposed to always trying to make it a certian level. African cichlids actually do not need extremely hard water... just medium hardness is fine. The lake's water in actuality is not that hard (4-6 dGH and 6-8 dKH).

What i use, and many african keepers that i know, just use crushed coral or shell to buffer the water. It will raise ph up to about 8.2, which is perfect. I'm not sure if it changes hardness, i believe it does a bit, but the change is gradual and will constantly buffer the tank in equal amounts. You can place crushed coral/shell right into the substrate, or make it the substrate, or you can place about 2 cups of it into a nylon stocking and put it in the filter. This way its out-of-sight and buffers the water.

You can add baking soda as a cheap way of buffering the water going into the tank, so there isnt any effect on the fish from ph change.

HTH
-Diana

 

[Glasslaer]

Thanks, Diana! Everything I have read says stability over perfection, and I have 10 healthy cichlids right now, so the thought of messing with the chemistry was not a pleasant thought. Hearing it from someone with experience with cichlids is comforting, especially since I'm only a few weeks into my cichlid experience. I'll take the stuff back and get some new fish for the shark tank.

Sorry to hear about your experience, bt300z32. I would be very upset if I lost that many fish all at once. My only recent losses were from one bad-tempered molly who was killing his tank-mates (he's now with the bala sharks). I am trying to do two changes per week on my freshwater tanks, but our water is not treated with chlorine or chloramine, only fluoride, so I don't have those issues. My sympathies!

 

[Harry Tolen]

My only thought would be that you should draw your water from the outside, unsoftened tap. Although because of temperature issues you will probably need to hold it in a heated tub or barrel inside to bring it up to tank temperature before using it.

Water softeners (at least the ones used in houses), really don't soften the water. What they do is substitute sodium ions for calcium ones, which makes the water easier to use for bathing, doing dishes, etc. In other words, they make the water salty, not really "soft".

While there are some freshwater fish that have a high tolerance for salt (Central American cichlids come to mind), the fishes of Lake Malawi are not among their number. Their water is high in mineral content, but not in sodium chloride.

Crushed coral will definitely help raise your hardness in a useful fashion, though. My personal feeling is that there are other trace elements in the lakewater that are present in the various proprietary products sold as additives, but they are probably more important for a Lake Tanganyika biotope and you probably don't need to use them in your Malawi tank. Although, I will also note, that it is much easier to use additives than it is to try and soften water via reverse osmosis or any of the other methodologies, so if you want to use them you shouldn't be too hesitant. Just treat the tub of water you are heating up when you fill it, and the conditions will stay nice and consistent.

Good luck. You seem to be off to an excellent start.

 

[racingjason]

I bred Malawi cichlids for several years and I feel people (LFS) make more problems than they solve. I used crushed coral substrate, no additives a bunch of lime stones and a large canister filter. No buffer additives and I used straight tap water. Ph just under 8 KH 5 DH 5 and in the tank it would settle at ph 7.5 or so, kh just over 5 dh~5. I also found that if you vacuum too often you will upset their spawning. By doing small daily water changes followed by one large water change (30+ %) they will spawn almost on cue. I still have 4 C afras because I couldn't bring myself to get rid of all of them when I switched to discus.
Oh yeah the test strips were hit and miss for me. One time high next low, I threw them out because I was always checking them against a real ph kit.

 

[Glasslaer]

Thank you both, RacingJason and Harry Tolen. I think I like the idea of the crushed coral best, and will probably do that. I can't haul the water in from outside, I am afraid, but the sodium content in the water doesn't seem to be real high by calculations of water hardness (I need to recheck my math). Most importantly, the fish seem healthy now. I don't want to create problems for myself, as you point out RacingJason.

Your tanks sound fantastic, by the way, Racing Jason. Do you have pictures of them?

 

[Z Man]

I know people who have water softeners and they have a tap (faucet) somewhere before the water softener itself. They just connect a hose to that and take their water before it goes through the unit.

 

[racingjason]

Thank you both, RacingJason and Harry Tolen. I think I like the idea of the crushed coral best, and will probably do that. I can't haul the water in from outside, I am afraid, but the sodium content in the water doesn't seem to be real high by calculations of water hardness (I need to recheck my math). Most importantly, the fish seem healthy now. I don't want to create problems for myself, as you point out RacingJason.

Your tanks sound fantastic, by the way, Racing Jason. Do you have pictures of them?

I have to take some new ones of the smaller tanks, I have a newer pic of the big tank though. I thought I only saved 3 of the afra, but a 4th tiny one popped up during cleaning time today! He must have been hiding behind the filter when I took all his brothers to their new home. I'll take some pics of the cichlid tank tomorrow if I can.

It was pretty nice when it was just cichlids in it, they just were not the most relaxing fish to look at. I feel like a total newb now that I am switching to discus, it's a WHOLE new (and more expensive) world!