Confused about water hardness (importance of gh vs. kh vs. tds)

ibbica

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Mar 6, 2006
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So I moved (from Canada to Belgium!), gave my 10gal with Amano shrimp and a catfish who apparently are still alive at 3 and 6 years old, respectively :y220e: and haven't had a chance to set up a new tank of my own yet. But I've been asked to take a look at a friend's tank, who seems unable to keep anything alive longer than 6 months :irked:

Turns out... as far as I can tell everything is basically OK. You know, except for the dying fish and all...

It's a 30 gallon freshwater tank, fully cycled (ammonia =0, nitrites = 0, nitrates = 15 ppm), planted with a couple plants (not sure what they are, but they're fully submerged and look like grass). It's currently filled with rainwater (!), and populated by 4 guppies (1 male 3 females) and a bazillion tiny snails (!). He switched to rainwater from tap because neon tetras and other softwater, acidic-water fish weren't doing well, but then tried guppies (who apparently prefer hardwater) because he figured they'd be easier to keep alive. All things considered, you can imagine what I suspect the problem is :duh:

Now, since rainwater is, I happen to think, less than ideal because it basically has nothing dissolved in it (and I also suspect the snails originated from the rain barrel...), I'd like to recommend that my friend switch (slowly, so as to keep the guppies alive, if he feels so inclined) back to tap water (dechlorinated, of course). But before I do that, I wanted to find out what fish should do well in the tap water here, so I went ahead and tested it. Here's what I discovered:

pH = 7.4-7.5
KH = 12-13 (German) degrees (so about 200 ppm)
GH = 5 (German) degrees (so about 90 ppm = moderately soft)

Now for the reason I'm confused: according to municipal sources, the hardness of the water in our province is about 38 (French) degrees, or TDS = 380 ppm, which is apparently considered "hard to extremely hard."

Qualitatively the tap water here is definitely what *I* would call "extremely hard" - soap doesn't lather well, mineral deposits are left when washed dishes air-dry, it feels sort of "dry" on the skin if that makes any sense... oh and it tastes great :cheers:

So... which of these "hardness" measures do fish care about? It sounds as though GH is more important for KH in terms of the 'hardness' preferences, but that TDS would be even MORE important and most people don't test for it because of cost issues... with these values, should I recommend fish that appreciate soft, or hard water?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!
 
Your KH and GH is fine for most fish, but your TDS is 380?? That is a rock. You may need an RO unit.
 
Nonsense. I've had 600+GH alone. Thing is, our tests measure very specific things. They measure Ca++ and Mg++ (GH) and bicarbonate (KH).

TDS is the important one most of the time because it is what dictates the osmotic environment the fish is in. However, it's harder to measure; KH and GH together form a surrogate, but they don't measure the total sulphate, chloride, sodium, potassium...
 
Interesting, but now I'm somewhat confused. I would have thought that ibbica's GH reading would be higher, given that hardness is mainly measured by Ca and Mg levels? Perhaps I'm wrong. If one didn't request the additional information, however, you might think you had "moderately soft" water.

In any case, it sounds much like my tapwater, except my pH is higher, at 8.3. No problems keeping tetras or other so-called "soft water fish", so it may be something else in the water? Here, the number and types of contaminants vary widely by location and water companies.
 
Avg TDS of around 135-140 here.
 
The water in the tank at only 6 degrees is fine for most of the fish on the list. At a TDS of 380, I would worry a bit about the South Americans but not about the guppies. A good compromise might be a mix of that 380 ppm tap water and some nice mineral free rain water. The KH of the tap being diluted to about 6 or 7 degrees will be enough to stabilize the pH but not overwhelm it.
 
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