cycleless cycling?

[TomFromStLouis]

I cannot remember where on the net I read about this, but the gist of the article was to avoid the ammonia/nitrate spikes completely by setting up the tank and adding lots of plants within a day or so. After a few days go ahead and introduce a very small fish load. The idea here is that the ammonia consuming bacteria get started but never have a huge amount of an ammonia spike to jump start a huge colony; just enough to begin a colony. A week or so later add more fish. Add fish slowly so that the colony of bacteria can grow in unison, but between the plants and the bacteria, you should avoid any ammonia spike, yet still get the requisite bacterial formations for an ongoing stable environment with no ammonia or nitrites. I suppose the key is to have a large plant/fish ratio throughout the buildup since plants use ammonia too.

Will this save some time for my situation? I will be setting up a 75 gallon heavily planted tank very soon from scratch with no seasoned materials in an office setting. If I plant it up right away and introduce maybe 6 1" algae eaters a week or so later (certainly a small load but enough to generate some ammonia), then maybe some shrimp or a small school of tetras a while later (along with water changes), shouldn't I be okay? If I monitor the ammonia and nititrite levels and come up with something to worry about, would aggressive water changes buy some time for me? I know impatience is a problem but it really won't do to have a relatively empty tank cycling in my office for a month.

Comments welcome.

 

[pinballqueen]

Interesting way of putting things...

I am also kind of impatient when it comes to cycling a tank (can't stand to see an empty box of water for a month...)

I'm not sure exactly how effective the method you propose would be, but I do have a suggestion: is there any way you could "borrow" some media, or a handful of gravel, from an established tank to jump start things? My lfs will often supply this material upon request. Yours may differ. If not your lfs, then someone that you know with an established tank might lend you a fake plant or a big rock to get things going. Any bacteria is better than none at all, and it will help things along a lot faster than starting with a sterile tank.

Also, what kind of algae eaters are you planning to put six of in that tank? Fish that eat algae range anywhere from 6" to 4 feet in adult size, so knowing the specifics of what you have in mind might be helpful...

Bear in mind that even though you'll make it easier on the fish to cycle with plants, you're still cycling with fish. You may experience deaths in large numbers. Go with something very hardy to start with, like danios, rather than something like any algae-eating fish, for two reasons. 1. Many algae-eating fish are in the catfish family, and can be a bit delicate. 2. In a new tank, a fish that eats algae would starve to death.

 

[TomFromStLouis]

my plan

My plan was to start with some SAEs. As shipped from AZGardens they are 1" long, so I thought that algae on the plants would keep such a small load fed until tank algae kicked in. I could toss in a little fish food if needed. Maybe the school of tetras as a first load is better, I don't know. Are SAEs delicate or sensitive?

How high will my nitrites get this way anyhow? I guess there is one way to find out! I will still need to exercise patience, but at least I have SOMETHING to look at the first month or so.

Anyone have experience with this approach? I realize I have some risk with each addition of fish, but if done gradually and in small doses relative to the tank size, it seems that deadly spikes could be avoided. And yes, the bit of gravel from the lfs is a great idea.

I remember few problems when I had a tank 30 years ago and I was unaware of all these issues. I do remember the lfs saying to add fish over time, so maybe I have already done this to a degree. But that was probably higher risk since I had only one or two live plants.

I guess my whole point here is that understanding the cycling process is important but maybe it does not have to be such a traumatic cylce that you can't get on with fishkeeping.

 

[wetmanNY]

Absolutely classic technique! and it will work seamlessly, because

a. it's a planted tank, i.e. where plants are in control not just decor.

b. you're a cautious and patient person.

A little AmQuel will bind any NH3, leaving it available to the developing bacteria. And a pinch of chloride per gallon would compete with nitrite for uptake at the gills. It's the chloride that serves this purpose in salt, but as a sophisticated fishkeeper with a planted tank, you'd be getting yours in the form of potassium chloride-- K for the plants, Cl for nitrite...

Don't rush to fertilize. Don't rush to add more fish. Pinballqueen's notes of caution are well taken, too.

.

I hope you'll be hanging out at AC.We'll all profit from your blow-by-blow experiences in setting up this tank.

 

[Tempest]

You might want to take a look in the plants forum too. What you suggest is just how most over there would suggest. I started my 55 gallon heavily planted tank that way.. I added my Otos after a few days but I had a problem... It was August and the plants were shipped in hot weather and they didn't take right off growing like they should... I *should* have waited to add the fish until I knew the plants were growing. The decaying plants caused me problems with a nitrite spike. I had to do a lot of water changes for a few days until the plants caught hold.. Luckily I was testing and caught it soon enough I didn't get fish deaths.

 

[sunnygirl]

you may also want to add StressZyme to the tank. this introduces and maintains bacteria to your tank.

 

[carpguy]

Perhaps this is the article you'd found.

Plants add a whole extra level of complexity and the process takes about the same amount of time. Of course you'd have all those plants to look at (and tend to). After reading this article and a variety of threads on this topic, it seems to me it should work out fine. I planted after a standard fishless.

On the subject of SAEs. I added two to my cycled and planted 30 and after two days one of the little fellers was dead . I attributed it to either introduction stress or a turf war with the loaches. He was the last fish into the tank and my only loss so far. The other SAE is thriving and has nearly doubled in size in 2 months. In general I think they're pretty hardy but your talking about real juveniles at that size and they may show up a little jetlagged. And a half dozen are going to be a lot of fish before too long.

 

[pinballqueen]

Originally posted by sunnygirl
you may also want to add StressZyme to the tank. this introduces and maintains bacteria to your tank.

Not to flame, but I have found that Stress Zyme, like any other "bacteria in a bottle" concoction, doesn't live up to the hype. Great theory, but it doesn't do much of anything (other than eat up money). The jury is still out on Bio-Spira (the only one I've seen that requires refrigeration, which tells me that the bacteria it contains is probably living, anyhow), but it has been my experience that most of those products are like flushing money down the potty. But, if it works for you....